To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

Because millennials always use the cost of housing as an example as how they have it worse - there are many other factors to having a hard life than just housing. Yes housing is more expensive, but food is cheaper, eating out is cheaper, clothes are cheaper, furniture is cheaper, holidays are cheaper and whilst there is still some way to go, women have it better now then they ever have.

Where is this place? I must move there.....

It is harder. I think most people would sacrifice a tv and cheaper clothes in exchange for getting on the property ladder. Material crap vs security - you can't really compare the two.

My mother worked in a supermarket as a single parent with three kids and bought her home. She did struggle a lot, but still took us abroad a couple of times. This is completely out of reach for myself an DP (with only one child, not three). We barely eat out a handful of times a year and I still buy second hand clothes a lot of the time. Our household income is apparently above the national average, but it doesn't feel like it. We pay someone else's rent at an inflated price(someone who is, funnily enough, over 55 like most landlords I have had!) I think that generation don't want to admit that they have added to the problem by buying up houses to rent out, but at the same time all they have done is take an opportunity. If the government actually built enough houses or made buy to let less financially attractive then things wouldn't be in this state. We should be holding them to account, not our parents.

My life started in poverty and it will probably end that way the things are going unless something changes. At least our parents had a chance at life and I think that is the difference. I don't think it's ageist to point this out. Some don't realise how much running a rented home costs though - my uncle is moaning that his son won't move out - he works for him and he pays him £12k a year. We live in an area where a room in a shared house costs £500+ and he needs to maintain a car/buy food and petrol/clothes and have a bit of money to be a teenager! 1k a month isn't really enough for that is it? No wonder he's happy at home!!

yanbu op but i do wonder when succeeding in life equated to home ownership.

It's very British to think this way..

What is the point of comparing life now for millennials with life for the older generation?
Some things were more difficult back then and some things are more difficult now.
Not all of the older generation bought houses. Lots of them have no descent pension to retire on. Lots had little opportunity to gain further education.
It's not a competition for who had it worse.

Agree it depends very much who you are. I have a disability. I know kids now with this disability have it easier. They get better treatment and a better education. As a young adult there was no disability access to things like public transport.

And I have no idea when your mum was a single mum. But when I was a young adult a single mum could not get a mortgage without a male relative co signing it.

But life is worse for white able bodied middle class people. For many vulnerable and disadvantaged people it is better. It really depends thus who you are.

And we need far far better tenants rights. Young people need to campaign on these issues and vote. All generations campaign and fight on issues that impact them. This one needs to as well.

Jaxhog there was no Universal Credit or workfare back then either.

And you didnt have the tech because it didnt exist therefore your employer or the Job Centre didnt insist on you having it like they do now.

There was Family Credit introduced in the 70s. Before that low paid workers got nothing like tax credits. Housing benefit and child benefit - that was it. And no minimum wage. Which is why so many low paid families from this time have tales of doing 2 jobs.

But if you were wanted to survive on the dole, it was easy to keep signing on. There was YTS in the 80s and 90s, so young people did do a kind of workfare. But only for under 26 year olds.

So on a salary of 12k he was able to support a family and pay off a 36k mortgage in six years. Ok op.

It's a put down to say ''oh it's so British to want to own your own home''.

Why wouldn't people want the security, the power, the choice, the freedom to decorate, extend, move, plan, be mortgage/rent free one day. Of course people want that.

I'm not British btw but it's the same where I'm from.

"Every generation thinks they have it harder than other generations!"

Oh come on, that's really not true. No way would my parents born late 40s and early 50s think they had it harder than their parents born around the 20s.

"I'm not British btw but it's the same where I'm from."

I lived in Belgium for a while. They're so obsessed with home owning, and building their own home, that they claim to have bricks in their stomach.

"Do you honestly think a major London company would pay ££££ to a clueless twenty something year old ?"

Well, no, but this is why I was asking you what skills she had that she was able to get a job completely unrelated to what she studied and you said none and that she doesn't have an advanced degree or vocational training in marketing either. You also said she's not exceptional, so I'm flummoxed really.

You say she has no direct reports, but if she's started at graduate level, she will have subordinates in the office.

And as for 'I don't like your tone'. WTF?

Gwen a few people have tried to explain why arts degrees might not be the doom and gloom option despite not obviously leading to a career. When I’m recruiting graduate entry posts I’m after potential and ability to get things done not specific knowledge. I can teach the latter but it’s harder to teach the former. I know new grads won’t be fully effective in their role and are learning. They have more leyway to make mistakes and get access to more interesting work which in turn helps them to have an accelerated career progression. Maybe that’s unfair but it’s just the way of the world in my field.

As an aside, I’ve seen lots of people move from basic admin roles into events management, project officer/manager roles, business management, executive PA roles etc. There will be lots of people doing ‘admin’ that are paid incredibly well. Obviously there are more that are in lower-paid admin roles too. I’m not going to pretend it’s all rosy because it clearly isn’t. I also think careers advice has failed if students don’t have a clue about certain professions or the sorts of entry routes that might be available to them (and the requirements for those routes).

user - you've also told me you only recruit the top people so your experience isn't relevant to the average arts graduate.

As for highly paid admin jobs, you admit yourself that those are harder to find. Where I live executive PA roles don't really exist. The best paid admin jobs in my city seem to be at the university and those are very, very difficult to get.

Gwen
You’re young, I imagine. You will probably never have as much energy as you have now. Idk your situation or if you have children. But if you don’t, I’d recommend working as hard as you can, getting a second job or skilling up with professional qualifications. Then hopefully you will be able to save and one day get on the ladder. I read in the news this morning the high end London housing bubble has burst. Iirc a house has gone on the market for around £20 million less than the original 2016 asking price, which was just over double.

God knows OP.

I'm 54. Went to local grammar after passing 11+. Wasn't fussed about career as I knew big employers came to our school in little caravans during 5th form year, interviewed and recruited us from school. I went straight into a BT job when I left. Did college thru them via Day-Release.

After couple of years thought I fancy going college full-time. No fees, grant for books, free travel. I had a 1evening a week + Saturdays job, managed just fine. Finished that, then onto Uni - again no fees to pay.

Then left home ( my parents' council flat in East London) via the Sons & Daughters Housing scheme, for the children of parents in the borough. Took 4 months to get an offer. Cheap rent, heating included. I bought that flat when I was 25. I've moved on now but still rent it out. All my siblings also bought a home before age 30. & we all grew up on an east end council estate.

Always had a great social life by the way. Loads of social and youth clubs where we could hang out chill listen to music. & once 16 you could branch out to west end..100 Club etc all had under 18s sessions. We weren't on the streets at all.

Theres a particular type of sour elder who uses the term 'Millenial in a smug, disparaging, hypocritical and unkind way. Rooted in jealousy of lost youth. So they crow 'we had it better than you' and revel in stories of hardship.

I always wonder if they have children, and hate them. Or end up online complaining bitterly that their grown up children now don't want to know them. I also wonder if they don't care that their or their friends' children can see their unkind comments (thinking of FB in particular where race to the bottom syndrome is in full flow, and people seem to think it's fine to say anything they please no matter how nasty).

They're best ignored. Look on FB where hordes of them squat just waiting to call youths snowflakes, stupid, entitled etc. I imagine them all as disgruntled no-marks who are dissatisfied with their own lives hence not happy unless others have a hard time of it.

I've 2 DCs, mid 20s, living at home with me whilst they save for a deposit on their 1st home. Eldest DDs partner also lives here. They've finished Uni, are working, and I've no intention of them living in grotty expensive private rented. Let them pay their own mortgage. They'll buy a house outside London where prices aren't ridiculously inflated and they can actually afford to live.

I had it far, far easier than they do. No qualms at all in helping them get a foot on the housing ladder.

I'm grateful for having had an easier time of it. Someone else having a difficult time doesn't benefit me I'm not buying into all that.

Youths should disengage with all the snowflake millennial competitive silliness just leave those elders to it. They'll obviously live forever in fine fettle and never need the care of a 'snowflake' in any form. They think young people not making it will actually benefit them. Crazies.

I actually think it's much better these days. It's not all about housing.
When I graduated there wasn't a nursery in the town I work. Nor any childminders. The uni had one - how exciting! Did this mean we didn't have to give up our career when we had a baby? Can you imagine that now? So many of us had to give up work to have children thus losing out on pension, progressions, job satisfaction...

You may have low pay now, but we often had no pay in the 80s. Unemployment was sky high. In a way it just isn't today.

heres a particular type of sour elder who uses the term 'Millenial in a smug, disparaging, hypocritical and unkind way

Who ARE these people?
Everyone I know over 55 is helping or worrying about their DCs future. Why would they be unkind. I know one couple without DCs, retired so when are they even going to meet millennials? Let alone whinge about them!

"To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?"

Because overall it isn’t. Each generation has its own bad stuff and good stuff.

My grandparents generation got at least one war to be massacred in. Bombing, rationing, extreme poverty.

My parents (boomers) grew up with rationing, no heating or hot water. Baths were in front of the fire. The loo was outside. My mum was refused a mortgage because she was a woman. They had to scrimp and save as house prices actually doubled near them over a year or so and when they did buy a modest house they had no furniture for a couple of years. No internet. Massive sexism. Women expected to leave work upon marriage. Only a privileged few went to university. No maternity provision.

Millenials have their own set of good things and bad things. Globalisation has meant that you can travel and compete globally - that can be good and also it can be bad - cheap labour depresses the bottom end of the job market and st the top end you’re competing with people from many countries.
Access to education is improved massively. The internet. Far less sexism in the workplace (still a long way to go.) maternity leave and rights.
House prices are relatively higher. That is an issue - but not insurmountable. Many of my generation have to move away from family and support to other areas where there’s work.

No one generation has ever had it easy or perfect. Which is why ‘boomers got given a house on a bed on hard cash just got existing’ gets eye rolls.

I get this all the time from my eldest....and whilst I agree that houses were easier to buy when we were his age due to lower house prices in relation to average income, we still had to budget to within an inch of our lives to save the deposit. We hardly ever went out, when we did we allowed ourselves two drinks each, had no holidays, didn't buy any new clothes, etc etc. On the other hand, he goes out drinking at least once every week, eats out, goes on holiday abroad, buys new clothes regularly, drives a new car, and moans that he has no money left to save for a deposit. So I think expectations of what we should be able to afford are definitely different. I'm a bit confused by some posters suggesting it's OP's own fault for going for low paid jobs and should just get a better paid job, like that's an easy option!

*Well, no, but this is why I was asking you what skills she had that she was able to get a job completely unrelated to what she studied and you said none and that she doesn't have an advanced degree or vocational training in marketing either. You also said she's not exceptional, so I'm flummoxed really.

You say she has no direct reports, but if she's started at graduate level, she will have subordinates in the office.

And as for 'I don't like your tone'. WTF?*

Look back at your posts. My DD has done well admittedly and you sounded a tad rude, I can take you being flummoxed but not you talking about having to do photocopies for 'someone like my daughter' like she doesn't deserve it. She does.

All my children are exceptional in my eyes, but to others, I imagine not. Clueless is probably the last word I would use about this particular DC of mine. She had a lot of experience in PT jobs before she left Uni, she took an opportunity she found on the internet, she contacted a particular Co in a niche market who happened to be looking for someone who, along with other qualifications she didn't have, wanted an English degree. She thought 'what the hell I'll apply anyway'. After 4 interviews, she got the job and happened to be very good at it and moved on from there. Exceptional? Probably not. Savvy and very hardworking, yes. User1471 sums it up perfectly in her first para, despite not having marketing quals, she was very quick to learn on the job and prove herself.

She may well have 'subordinates' in the office but the sort of Cos she works for work as a team, no asking anyone to do anything, it's just not like that.

Im not invested in either Rousette or Gwen, but you do sound rude, Gwen!

Leave someone else's DD alone. Its not the point of the thread anyway.

Most people couldn't get into uni either. It was the top 5%. Just the occasional person from my town would go. So more graduates now, but the price is the degree is less exceptional.

There are so many different issues it is so hard to compare. Someone above they all bought what seem to be the council houses they lived in. Not all of us were in council housing with a right to buy. Some of us were in very depressed areas like the NE. Many of us found it hard to get jobs.
15% of people owned their home about 100 years ago. It is now much higher. I think most people do like the idea of owning so as a state we should work towards making that possible for as many as we can. However that might mean living in areas like I live in. On another site I posted a link to a perflectly nice end of terraced hosue not too far from me (outer London) and the person thought it was horrible (and I think they want to live in inner London - well so did many of us 30 years ago but we could not afford it so we have had to tolerate decades of a commute - so what - you cut your cloth)....

Getting the deposit is the hardest thing even a 5% deposit if the local one bed flats are £300k particularly if you are buying without a partner. People not marrying so young (I was 21) is another issue - wise in some ways but they tend to have one wage not the two we had when we bought.