To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

I’m “old” and would laugh at your thread title.
But it’s not funny. It’s beyond misinformed

Yes if you look at figures around house owning, the largest increase is in people living alone. It used to be far far rarer for people to live alone.

Also the average house price is about £265000. So a 10% deposit is £26,500.

My niece has a good degree but couldn't find work in her field. She already worked at a supermarket throughout university and went there full time afterwards. She started from the bottom and has been promoted to a management role now.

She lived at home (paying board -, my sister is not renowned for her financial generosity) until at 26 she had saved up the deposit for a small flat. She didn't have holidays abroad or undertake any significant expenditure while she was saving.
Of course it wasn't easy but in my opinion she has prioritised saving and she is now in a position to plan for her future.

It isn't the fiver on coffee that makes the difference, it's that the mindset that says "oh it's just a coffee" is also the one that says "but I neeeeeed a holiday" or "I deserve a new sofa" or "I just like having gel nails". It's the mindset of spend spend spend that means that if they changed that mindset, they could save.

Anyway, OP has a Degree in Dissembling and Self-Pity.

(R, I think she is saying she will inherit a sixth of the grandparents' house when they die unless they change their will and currently helps them with their mortgage so therefore she doesn't own a house surely?)

crunchy, that's true. I had to b uy in the 80s with a partner, two full time wages. My parents worked for 10 years full time before children to afford to buy. My recent family tree work on my family which is fascinating shows a lot of people crowded together, not that that was that desirable when you had 2 rooms for 2 adults and 10 children of course. None of us want to get back to that. I also specifically want my children not to buy with a sibiling either in case later one wants to move or has a partner. It's more complicated unless it's ownership with someone you are married to as is the case with one of mine.

But crunchy say a couple both earning around the average salary (say 26k) want to buy that average priced house with a 10% deposit. Well they couldn’t, because they aren’t able to borrow enough.

And I bought a house in my early twenties but it is not easy, as a millennial in the south who has done it I do feel qualified to say so.

I am not saying it is easy to buy a house. House prices are mad.

My parents (they would be in their 80s now) used to say ‘I wouldn’t want to be young now - it’s tougher’.

I think they meant that like is way more complicated than it was when they were starting out together (mid 1950s) and back then a man could buy a house (remember a woman’s earnings weren’t considered when borrowing for a mortgage) as the prices weren’t as batshit. You could have a nice work pension and retire earlier than nowadays.

I’m an English major. There is a reason why half of my friends (and my engineering dh) sing me the songs out of Avenue Q with alarming regularity.

We all make our choices. Those of us who value the arts have to accept that we aren’t going to get high paying STEM jobs if we intend to actually use them in a career.

In reality, you don’t even need a degree for the majority of jobs that English majors go on to, so if earning power is driving your degree choice - or your choice to spend money on a degree at all - other choices are available)

(I can equally lecture on the absolute value of the study of literature btw. And have done so formally . But not on personal fiscal value of the same, which is the focus of this thread).

I earned £48k by 25 in the mid 90s, by not having a degree at that time. We got on the housing ladder prior to having children, and then were somewhat goosed by having a child with a disability rendering me unable to work ft from birth until school. I worked pt at the weekends so dh could do the childcare then. My pt wages then rendered me unable to claim carers allowance. I didn’t see my dh, but hey, on paper we were both working, had three kids, and a house. Job done.

You've got £100k in savings? And you're whinging?

Diamond shoes and all that.

I live in my grandparents house that they bought as an investment and I pay their mortgage

So what happened to the house you already owned my single mum was paying the mortgage for our house which I now own

Maybe it was lost like the driving licence that you had then suddenly couldn't drive

Older generation what are you on about, op?

ExtraPineappleExtraHam Even the 'older generation' possibly had to cut their coat according to their cloth. Most people can't necessarily afford to buy the house they dream of. Compromise is required. If you can't afford to live somewhere where you can't afford to buy, buy somewhere cheaper elsewhere! It's a life lesson that those of us you would consider to constitute "the older generation" have had to learn!

Millenial here, DH & I bought our first home in October 2017 (both 29). We live in the south west so property is not cheap around here.

What i found most infuriating was that we would be able afford the monthly payments, but it was getting the deposit together that was stopping us from buying. We had been saving for 5 years but prices just kept going up & up, not to mention all the fees you have to save for as well.

We ended up moving in with family for 2 years to save it. That was really hard work, but we just would never have been able to do it otherwise as buying kept getting further out of reach (and i realise we were very fortunate to be able to do this). We put down a 10% deposit (so £25k, plus another £3k for fees).

We did buy a 3 bed (albeit a small 3 bed) because we want to start a family in the near future & wanted to make sure we got somewhere we didn't outgrow too quickly. If we had been in a position to buy in our early 20s then we would've gone for a 2 bed then worked our way up to a 3 bed.

Anyone trying to save that deposit has my sympathy. It was something I thought about non-stop for years and I really did get quite down about it at times.

Chelle
On comparing the APR, the point being made is that houses are actually not infinitely more expensive than they may first appear when the massive difference in the cost of borrowing is factored in. The problem arises when the mortgage companies won’t lend in the salary multiples required and wages have stagnated. So on paper what a couple/individual can afford and what a couple/individual is allowed to borrow is very different. It isn’t possible anymore to take out a mortgage, where the monthly payment is more than 50% of your take home pay. We are not responsible for this, for the 2008 crash, which brought about sweeping changes nor are we responsible for the house price hikes. Low interest rates have driven house prices up coupled with foreigners investing, laundering money and buying great swathes of property, particularly in London. And you even have help to buy, which didn’t exist back in our day.

Your struggles are your own. 15 years is a ridiculously long time to save up a deposit and you made a massive sacrifice. Just as a payment of just over £400 pcm is a ridiculous amount to pay for a 33k debt. Idk why you are so quick to dismiss my struggles and yet expect us to recognise yours. Can’t you see it works both ways?

It isn't the fiver on coffee that makes the difference, it's that the mindset that says "oh it's just a coffee" is also the one that says "but I neeeeeed a holiday" or "I deserve a new sofa" or "I just like having gel nails". It's the mindset of spend spend spend that means that if they changed that mindset, they could save.

I tend to agree with this. There is definitely a savers mindset that can see how each penny adds up to the whole amount. However big my target is, ultimately it is made up of pennies and each penny that I save is another penny closer. Each time I don't spend 60p on a chocolate bar when I buy petrol, I'm another 60p closer to my target. Each time I sell something on Facebook or earn some more points doing an online survey, I'm that much closer to my target. If I can, I put the amount I didn't spend into a savings jar so I really can see how much it is at the end of the month and then challenge myself to save even more the next month. It really does work, although for larger amounts you need to combine it with other things like regular savings, and selling unwanted stuff.

I think in London and the southeast housing is very expensive and hard to get on the property ladder unless you have family help. However in the north I think it's fine. I've seen 3 bed houses in major cities such as Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester in reasonable areas for less than £250k. So for a couple working full time (for example band 6 nurse and teacher both on £35,000 each) that 3.5 x their joint salary which was what same multiple dh and I got a mortgage for when we bought our first house 20 years ago.

I do think Millennials have much higher expectations than we did (Generation X) a friends dd started university I last year and would not consider any accommodation unless it had an ensuite. I did when I thought of the student house a la 'The Young Ones' we had in the 80s.

I would never have expected to buy a 3 bedroom house as my first house.

Andromeda

My sentiment exactly. Ensuite ffs. I know someone, whose sister lived in a squat in the 80’s when she was at university in London. So that would have been exactly like the young ones. Millennials wouldn’t survive living in the crappy places we rented with no central heating, no shower and 30+ year old kitchens, furnishings, bathrooms, carpets etc. 😱 oh no how do I light this oven? With a match? Where’s the button? I heard some places even had outside loos. In the 90’s.

Can we all just stop assuming millennials spunk money on holidays and coffees and cocktails all the time?

I'm a millennial, I live in a grotty flat in an undesirable area, I don't go on holiday or have a car and when I do see my friends we tend to go to each other's houses because it's free!

The media stereotype of flaky spendthrifts does not represent me or the people I know. Can we afford house deposits? Absolutely not (with the exception of people helped by family). Saving on top of paying rent, bills, food, council tax - the essentials - is near impossible, and although I did manage to save a 5-figure sum while working full time and freelancing on the side, it's not enough for a deposit.

Also, doing a STEM degree doesn't guarantee you'll walk into a highly paid job. I'm currently freelancing in my chosen industry which is not a well-paid one and although I've applied for jobs in a related field for which I have all the skills for, I've lost out to another candidate on the final round of interviews. No one can absolutely guarantee they'll get a well paid job, even if they try their hardest to find one.

Secure housing shouldn't only be the preserve of high earners, either. For some people, feeling happy, inspired and fulfilled by the job you do every day is more important than the pay check and that shouldn't preclude you from having a secure place to live - whether that's renting or buying, I personally don't think owning is the be all and end all but until tenants rights are improved and longer-term tenancies introduced its the only way to ensure secure living in old age which in itself I don't agree with - renting should be made a more viable option for those who haven't got a hope in hell of saving a deposit

''My sentiment exactly. Ensuite ffs. I know someone, whose sister lived in a squat in the 80’s when she was at university in London. So that would have been exactly like the young ones. Millennials wouldn’t survive living in the crappy places we rented with no central heating, no shower and 30+ year old kitchens, furnishings, bathrooms, carpets etc. 😱 oh no how do I light this oven? With a match? Where’s the button? I heard some places even had outside loos. In the 90’s.''

That's because it's now illegal to rent out a lot of places like that, and to squat. Times have moved on. I lived in places like that in the 80s and 90s, I'm glad people have higher standards now, because a lot of rogue LL's were renting out death traps and didn't give a fuck and were accountable to no one. I don't see that as a badge of honour, I see that as damn lucky I didn't share the fate of a friend's son, who died in a fire in an unsuitable flat in Edinburgh in 1992. Time moves on! Hell, bet those survivors of families of 8 who lived in so called 'single ends' in Glasgow could point some fingers at you with your indoor plumbing and tell you to put up with any ol' shit because hey, they had it harder.

Unfortunately Millennials have also been sold the myth that a degree results in a decent job on a graduate's salary. 20% of jobs in the U.K. Command a graduate's salary (and this percentage has not changed much since the 80's) but 40% of Millennials are going to university. Therefore half of today's graduates will have ordinary middle to low paying jobs like the OP.

expat
Obviously it’s illegal. And obviously times have moved on, which is a good thing that safety checks are now a part of being a responsible landlord. And where did I say it was a badge of honour? I think it is absurd that certain students expect an ensuite so much more when really the basics of warm, safe housing will suffice. They turn their noses up at something, we would have given our right arm for. That’s the point.

'I think it is absurd that certain students expect an ensuite so much more when really the basics of warm, safe housing will suffice. They turn their noses up at something, we would have given our right arm for. That’s the point.'

Obviously universities disagree with you because they have all mostly re-designed their housing to be en-suite. They've moved with the times. Imagine that?