To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

Gwen if you don't have a progressive career your earning ability is compromised by the number of hours available to you for work. I used to work a pub cleaning job 5.30am-8am, 9-5 Mon-Fri day job, 6-11.30 pub job and then on Friday and Saturday evenings after the pub shift I worked 11.30-2.30 in a nightclub. (I didn't clean the pub on Sunday mornings, and could start the cleaning later on Saturday).
If I had kids then I couldn't have done those hours!

""wouldn't dream of wasting £5+ a day on lunch as some of their friends do"

Yes it does make a difference"

No, it's really not what counts! Think about how much of a deposit someone needs and how much they need to earn to get a mortgage. Buying lunch ready made or buying it and making it yourself is neither here not there.

Just found this by googling:

"A study led by My Home Move found that for the initial three months of 2017, the average deposit for homes in England and Wales was £59,633. This means if you stop buying sandwiches, you’ll have your deposit saved up in 59 years. Given that the vast, vast majority of people don’t work for 59 years, there is going to be a slight problem in making sandwiches at home in the hope of bringing in enough money to change your life."
www.suco.co.uk/reveal/stop-buying-sandwiches-and-buy-a-house/

"Funny how some young people are still managing to buy houses, isn't it?"

Higher earners, yes. The point is that it's harder than it used to be.

Every generation believes it was far better for previous generations.
I'm sure the elderly who survived the Blitz think we live in clover.
Those who faced huge increases in interest rates and were repossessed.
Those facing negative equity and unable to move, and now, those renting who'll never be able to afford a home.
People having to move away from their home area as they can't afford. to buy there, they lose a support network of family and friends. This has happened for at least the past 25 years, that I know.
There are hard luck stories from all generations.

Gwen I started as an AO and then worked my way up. Am now a G6 and have been there nearly 18 years. Most of my colleagues have humanities degrees. Yes we have the specialist accountants, economists and stattos but the non specialists often have history/geography or English degrees.

Problem now I think is that the CS don't often recruit many non fast streamers so 'normal' people find it difficult to get in. But once in, there's no issue with the degree subject - it's all about how good you are at the job.

DP works with young people. Many spend £50-£100 going out for the evening. We spend about £10 each. But we are used to living more frugally. I could not enjoy spending a fortune on cocktails and taxis.
No that may not buy a house. But the standard of living for lots of young people outside of housing, is higher.
There are pros and cons.

Gwen if there are 2 of them saving £25+ a week each, that's £7.5K over 3 years. A decent proportion of a deposit.

That's because they have had it far harder than us!

Of course it's not just a sandwich, but it's the whole higher expectations' lifestyle that massively adds up,e.g.
Netflix, the latest gadgets/phones, Sky, short breaks/travel, nice clothes, eating out, newish cars...it is all part of the modern lifestyle all young people expect.

It does add up massively over the years.

People in low paid jobs couldn't buy houses in the old days either.

Thanks Francis.
The EO jobs I've seen advertised have needed some kind of subject knowledge, so you'd have to already be in a professional job or done a vocational degree. The admin EOs were ones who started as AOs (or AAs when they used to exist where I worked).
The slightly depressing idea for me is that if I'd got a CS job when I was young, maybe I would have been able to go up a grade or two, but it's a pretty shit place to start working at in middle age.

Just to put a slightly different spin on it. My in laws are 62 and 60. MIL stayed at home to bring up the two children (early 80’s) she worked v v part time in v v low paid work very sporadically once they were school age. FIL in a trade but didn’t earn that well at all. They bought property in a desirable area cheap. House now worth 10 times what they paid but it needs some serious work doing to it. MIL has not worked in paid employment at all for the last ten years so since she was 50 and moans like hell that all her similar aged friends are much better off than her. She doesn’t see that not working for the past ten years has put her in that position. Her own children haven’t been financially dependant on them for 18 and 20 years respectively. So she could have easily worked for the last 20 years which would have made a huge difference to their lives now especially seeing as they have had no mortgage for 10 years.

Average deposit of first time buyers this time last year was £33K according to this report www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/first-time-buyers-uk-homes-deposit-average-33000-housing-market-report-mortgage-a7816321.html

So your bought coffee & sandwiches are around 1/5 of an average deposit.

I went into insurance with my english lit degree, did further financial exams and was working my way up before career change.

My parents lived inter generationally for 10 years before owning their own house.

I agree with the ‘different challenges’ and ‘different experiences’ views, don’t agree with lumping everyone together, its a narrow view of the world and its past and current opportunities.

over 3 years

"Netflix, the latest gadgets/phones, Sky, short breaks/travel, nice clothes, eating out, newish cars...it is all part of the modern lifestyle all young people expect."

Netlflix is much less than the TV licence that most older people had. My smart phone cost ten pounds. Short breaks abroad are cheaper for me that short breaks in this country because I don't drive and flying is usually cheaper than the train. I don't drive personally, but am called things like 'bus wanker' on MN. A lot of things that some see as luxuries like phones are actually pretty cheap now and are a normal part of life, not a sign of profligacy.
It really is pretty hypocritical for someone who has a TV licence to tell a young person not to pay 5 pounds for Netflix.

"I went into insurance with my english lit degree, did further financial exams and was working my way up before career change. "

So you're an arts graduate with strong numeracy skills. Not the case for all arts graduates.

I'm 41 years old, in little management in central government. My career progression has probably peaked.

31 year olds in the same kinds of role have a vastly poorer quality of housing than I had at the same age, and today's 51 year olds with similar seniority had it vastly better than I did.

This are inescapable facts that are accepted without question by anyone with even a passing familiarity with the living standards of other age groups.

Beanie - it sounds like your PILs are in a good position though. Own their own house, just needs some work done.

• middle management

YANBU. Housing has always been the biggest and most essential cost for families. The huge increase in housing costs compared to the very small increase in wages makes things much harder for young people today.

DP and I are in our 40s. I count my blessings every day. We live in a nice house because my DP had a high-paying job in his 20s and got on the housing ladder in the 90s when housing was cheaper. We're both now teachers. Our salary is above the national average but if we were first-time buyers today we would be able to afford nothing in our area (SE, not London).

I know how lucky we've been and I worry about my children. Not everyone can work in high-paying jobs. Not even average-paid jobs pay enough to buy a house in many areas. Should all the nurses, teachers, care-workers, retail assistants move to Wales?

The poster must be having a good old chuckle now that she/he has everyone riled up.

She owns a house, is rather comfortable and only has 1st world problems.

Or.......

If you are qualified to teach there is a shortage of teachers, so why are you not earning more money doing that?

Gwen
Higher earners, yes .
That's always been the case though, at least in areas where housing is expensive. My parents didn't manage to buy their first home until they were in their 30's and they were both earning professional wages. My Mum had to train as a teacher, which is what posters have suggested the OP does. Well, before it was discovered that she already owns a house inherited from her mother. Poor hard done by millenial.
As for your post about saving for the average deposit, note the word 'average'. Some will be lower than average, first time buyers need to look for one of those. It has always been that way. The average deposit is bumped up by 2nd and subsequent buyers using their equity on the next home.
Personally I do see the need for more affordable housing, that's not what people are objecting to on this thread. It's the blanket statement in the OP that young people today have it so much harder when it's clear that a lot of older people have lived through hardship that young people today just have no concept of.

Gwen - I'm in one of those countries and dh and I don't really expect to retire (I realise we are massively fortunate to have jobs at which we can, at least in theory, keep going until dementia sets in, and which we enjoy). The pension here isn't great, at least not for how we want to live. But it makes very little sense to buy property here. I wouldn't do it because I would be (justifiably) terrified of not being able to sell again. (Not a bad area by any means but very, very little movement on the market).
If people buy or (often) build a house here, they tend to stay there for life. None of this property-ladder business.