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AIBU?

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Original poster

To want the Gideons to get the #### out of my child's school

477 replies

PatriarchyPersonified · 15/02/2018 13:50

As I have made clear on threads on here in the past, I am an atheist (I'm actually a strong anti-theist) and I believe in the secularisation of society. (i.e religion can be there for people who want it but it should be irrelevant to anybodies day to day life unless they want to make it relevant.)

I believe that children should be taught about religions in school, as part of a comprehensive RE syllabus, and particularly about Christianity, as I believe from a cultural and historical perspective, it is impossible to fully understand the history and culture of the UK without reference to the bible. I would feel the same way about the Qu'ran if I lived in an Arab country btw.

What I am not happy about is that my oldest DC (12) has just had the bloody Gideon Society hosting an assembly in their school and dishing out Bibles! School is not the place for this. There is a reason why religious groups always target schools and prisons, its where the easy targets are.

OP posts:
Julie8008 · 15/02/2018 22:27

The absolutely only verifiable 100% true thing I can assert is Decartes first certainty Cogito ergo sum namely that I exist

Nope you cant verify that at all. Its just an easy place to start. Unless we have a pp who can verify something no one else is able to do?

Just seems odd to me, to study something to PhD level I would've just assumed there would have to be a great interest in

Its not odd at all, some people love to study Harry Potter, doesn't mean they believe its true. Exactly the same thing.

JaneyEJones · 15/02/2018 22:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 15/02/2018 22:35

My atheist daughter is currently writing a dissertation on women mystics in the early Church. As I said, it's wrong to reject things you know nothing about.

TabbyMack · 15/02/2018 22:37

Julie

I would say that s/he cannot in fact assert that s/he exists...as no one has any reason to believe him/her.
S/he can know it in her own head, but assert it to the rest of us? Nope.

BoomBoomsCousin · 15/02/2018 23:12

my point was to choose a subject like theology to do a doctorate in when someone is an atheist seems odd. Imo.

I think that reflects your lack of understanding about what academic theology is actually about. People’s belief systems and how they develop can be fascinating without thinking them true. As an academic theologian you aren’t likely to accept a lot of what you study, though you may still like or admire it.

Julie8008 · 15/02/2018 23:15

What, there's people studying Harry potter to PhD level then teaching it? yes there really has been someone who has done a PHD comparing Harry Potter to Jesus Christ.

to choose a subject like theology to do a doctorate in when someone is an atheist seems odd. As an atheist, I love all the myths of gods, from the flying spaghetti monster to Greek, Roman & Norse mythology to Harry Potter and beyond. If I had the brains and the money I would totally spend a lifetime studying/teaching them at uni. I agree its odd it has its own department as it really should be in either the English or History faculty but that is the historical legacy we are left with....

TabbyMack You still cant prove that, "S/he can know it in her own head". At best you could 'try to' argue that thinking is occurring therefore something is thinking. There is no way to jump to an I. Have you studied Solipsism at all?

RoseAndRose · 15/02/2018 23:26

"yes there really has been someone who has done a PHD comparing Harry Potter to Jesus Christ"

Surprised there was enough for a PhD in that, as the author has herself spoken about the Christian allegory.

Brahumbug · 15/02/2018 23:35

I will stop decrying religion on the day all of its privileges are withdrawn and they stop demanding the right to discriminate against minorities, cruelly kill animals and influence the school curiculum. All children start off as atheist, they only become xtian or Muslim etc due to indoctrination. Belief in god is not an equivalent position to saying there is no god, as the burden of proof lies with the believer. I am not saying there is definitely no god, I just don't accept he exists.

tumblrpigeon · 15/02/2018 23:38

Yabu.

Trying to limit your children from exposure to other belief systems than yours

BertrandRussell · 15/02/2018 23:49

“Trying to limit your children from exposure to other belief systems than yours”

Oh, don’t be silly. That’s not what anyone wants to do.

TabbyMack · 15/02/2018 23:53

Well, Julie, I've studied it enough to know some of the possible flaws with it.

The point I was actually making, though, was that the poster who came out "Cogito ergo sum" claimed she could "assert" it...in other words, the only thing s/he could prove was that s/he existed. Possibly his/her own thoughts are evidence of that to her/him but it's meaningless to the rest of us - because by the same token all any of us have evidence for (possibly) is our own existence.

I was pointing out that his/her argument was even dumber than you'd highlighted.

Vitalogy · 16/02/2018 06:48

These books can be sign posts to the answers but the truth can be found within yourself, no one can prove it to you but you can prove it to yourself.
The ego can be a barrier.

UnsuspectedItem · 16/02/2018 06:50

YANBU

RemainOptimistic · 16/02/2018 07:39

Cognito ergo sum is one of the most unintentionally hilarious statements of all time. It means I think I exist. Or, to continue on to the logical end of that thought process (see what I did there), my thoughts are what exist. Absolutely cracking.

OP I think you should put pressure on the school to invite Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists and Sikhs in to do their assembly and hand out their own propaganda. It seems only fair.

I'd think it's extremely rare for someone to catch the religion as a result of any formal schooling. The Christianity presented to me at school was dead religiosity, clearly irrational foolishness at best and offensive warmongering at worst. Those lessons successfully made me hate the church for decades. I'm now baptised and actively a follower of Jesus and it's the best thing that ever happened to me.

Eolian · 16/02/2018 08:16

I find it extraordinary that some people assume that atheists cannot find religion an interesting subject just because they don't believe in god. I'm a staunch atheist and find religion fascinating from a sociological, anthropological, psychological, cultural and historical point of view.

Nikephorus · 16/02/2018 08:26

The lack of any evidence of any kind to support your position is an objective and testable fact.
Some of us would say that the evidence of God's existence is everywhere. Look out of the window - nature in all its different forms - so much more complex in its construction than anything mankind has ever created. Have you ever thought about how a tree grows and what makes it that way it is? Or the human body? None of this was created by man so how did it get here? It didn't just magically appear one day. Something made it, something more powerful than a human. Seems fairly impressive to me.

Valentinesfart · 16/02/2018 08:33

In your opinion it is not real.In a believers opinion it clearly is real.But even it it isn't- how is telling someone to love their fellow man in any way a bad message.

We can't teach children to be nice without invoking a person we don't actually know anything about save a few writings from ages after he existed?

Where do you draw the line, there is a helluva lot of shit in the bible I don't want them to teach my children.

In your opinion it is not real.In a believers opinion it clearly is real

No they clearly believe it is real. That doesn't mean it is real.

The fact that are literally thousands of religions means that they all can't be right. There is no debate. Stick to what we know, teach children that. Indoctrinate at home.

Valentinesfart · 16/02/2018 08:39

I am always amazed at how much some 'atheists' froth and rant and obsess over religion. They claim to hate it/disbelieve etc, yet they can't stop talking about it.

I would never speak of it again if it would stop being rammed down the throat of my children. HTH

Valentinesfart · 16/02/2018 08:41

Some of us would say that the evidence of God's existence is everywhere. Look out of the window - nature in all its different forms - so much more complex in its construction than anything mankind has ever created. Have you ever thought about how a tree grows and what makes it that way it is? Or the human body? None of this was created by man so how did it get here? It didn't just magically appear one day. Something made it, something more powerful than a human. Seems fairly impressive to me.

Maybe that's true. Maybe God did it. Or Brahma or fucking Zeuss. But as we don't actually know any of that and there are plenty of gods to choose from maybe we shouldn't assume our fairy story is the most correct.

MsAwesomeDragon · 16/02/2018 08:44

I don't particularly like it either. But if it's anything like our school where the kids have an assembly and the new testament handed out in year 7. By lunchtime most of them are reading bits out and giggling at it, then by the time they go home a lot of those Bibles are in the bins at school.

Kids of that age actually aren't so easily brainwashed that a 10 minute assembly and a small book will change their view of the world. Those who were religious before the assembly stay religious, those who weren't still aren't.

Nikephorus · 16/02/2018 08:46

we shouldn't assume our fairy story is the most correct
You lose any credibility when you feel the need to refer to people's beliefs as fairy stories. I believe in God. If someone wants to believe in Zeus that's fine - I won't feel the need to ridicule them because it's their choice. It's a little thing called respect. Feel free to try it some time.

Valentinesfart · 16/02/2018 08:48

You lose any credibility when you feel the need to refer to people's beliefs as fairy stories

But you don't lose credibility for believing in fairy tales?

Which bit of "angels" isn't a fairy tale?

BertrandRussell · 16/02/2018 08:49

“By lunchtime most of them are reading bits out and giggling at it, then by the time they go home a lot of those Bibles are in the bins at school”

Which is another reason I object to them being handed out. It’s a huge waste of resources, an open invitation for kids to wantonly destroy a book and an opportunity for them to be crass about a thing that is important to a lot of people. It’s a lose/lose situation.

Valentinesfart · 16/02/2018 08:50

I have no doubt people think this feels very real to them. But they need only look to the billions of other people who feel the same way about their god and the wars that are started because it feels real.
Your feelings don't trump my rights.

DropItLikeASquat · 16/02/2018 08:54

so, if a pagan came into the kids school to teach about lokie and freya and gave them a book about Valhalla would that equally bother you? just out of curiosity??