To want the Gideons to get the #### out of my child's school

[PatriarchyPersonified]

As I have made clear on threads on here in the past, I am an atheist (I'm actually a strong anti-theist) and I believe in the secularisation of society. (i.e religion can be there for people who want it but it should be irrelevant to anybodies day to day life unless they want to make it relevant.)

I believe that children should be taught about religions in school, as part of a comprehensive RE syllabus, and particularly about Christianity, as I believe from a cultural and historical perspective, it is impossible to fully understand the history and culture of the UK without reference to the bible. I would feel the same way about the Qu'ran if I lived in an Arab country btw.

What I am not happy about is that my oldest DC (12) has just had the bloody Gideon Society hosting an assembly in their school and dishing out Bibles! School is not the place for this. There is a reason why religious groups always target schools and prisons, its where the easy targets are.

It isn't "competitive misery" at all. How else do we realise how fortunate we are unless we compare to how others live.

There's hardly any religion teached in Uk schools compared to when i was at school. Strange isn't it how many schools now have so many out of control, violent kids who have zero respect for teachers. Not hard to see why is it.

But hey let's ban all teachings of God shall we, and let it continue on its downward slope. Seems to me that's what a lot of you seem to want.

“All those things you listed about Christianity being "forced" on us.....no they aren't. The things you listed would not impact in the slightest way on the majority of people's lives. They really aren't a big deal“

OK. How about people of faith having a choice of one third more state schools than people without faith? How about a block vote of 25 unelected Bishops in the House of Lrds having an automatic input into government legistation- for example on isdues such as abortion, stem cell research and euthanasia. That’s two big deals to be going on with,

Perhaps a christian could explain why talking about sky faeries is mocking you?

I'm not a Christian however I can see why this is mocking.

Most adults don't believe in fairies, much in the way they grew out of the Easter bunny, Santa etc - its make believe

Also a fairy isn't a particularly powerful being but denotes a small dainty delicate being we can kill with our words like in Peter Pan, where chanting I believe in fairies brings Tinkerbell back to life

God on the other hand... whether you personally believe in or not, means something so powerful He created the world, everything in it, is in everything and everywhere...

It's definitely mocking to suggest someone's God is as powerless and pathetic as a fairy no matter how much you might like fairies and think they're cute or how much you may believe it yourself to be imaginary

Strange isn't it how many schools now have so many out of control, violent kids who have zero respect for teachers. Not hard to see why is it

Riiiiiiiight so that’s all due to lack of Christian teaching?

But hey let's ban all teachings of God shall we, and let it continue on its downward slope. Seems to me that's what a lot of you seem to want

I want to ban all “teachings of God” in a school environment. It should be perfectly possible for those that want to instruct their children in a religion to do so at home.

I want a complete divorce between church and state, including church and education.

I do NOT want to stop individuals worshipping

Perhaps if you don't want Christianity to impact on your lives you should choose to live on a non-Christian country.

The majority of people in the UK still identify as Christians, our head of state is also the head of a branch of Christianity.

Over the next 30 years or so Christianity is expected to move into the minority and perhaps then things will begin to change in favour of more secular schools etc but you can't demand everything suits atheists when atheism is in the minority.

Over the next 30 years or so Christianity is expected to move into the minority and perhaps then things will begin to change in favour of more secular schools etc but you can't demand everything suits atheists when atheism is in the minority

But i’m not: I’m saying if you want a selective religious education it shouldn’t be state funded.

Where is the issue in having totally secular education but those who want to instructing in religion at home? Then everyone is catered for.

Perhaps if you don't want Christianity to impact on your lives you should choose to live on a non-Christian country.

There’s that famous Christian tolerance and respect for others.

Over the next 30 years or so Christianity is expected to move into the minority and perhaps then things will begin to change in favour of more secular schools etc but you can't demand everything suits atheists when atheism is in the minority.

Do you understand the difference between atheism and secularism? From th above, it doesn’t look like it.

Religion is at the heart of the state in the UK. The Queen is the head of state and the head of the Church of England.

And please don't twist my words. I've no issue with people of other faiths or people of no faith living in the UK but you can't complain when not everything is suited to you.

There are Jewish schools, Muslim schools, Catholic schools. They don't all suit me and my beliefs bit I don't want to ban their existence.

There are Jewish schools, Muslim schools, Catholic schools. They don't all suit me and my beliefs bit I don't want to ban their existence

You’re really not getting it. I don’t want to ban faith schools. I don’t believe they should be state funded.

And if someone doesn’t want to pay for a particular type of education they can teach religion at home

There’s that famous Christian tolerance and respect for others.
Every single time someone on one of these type of threads suggest that if you hate the Christian aspect of the country so much then you could perhaps consider moving elsewhere ^ that is the response. It's clearly because a better one can't be thought of.

It is not intolerant to suggest it, it seems quite logical to me. But talking of "respect" for others, so the atheist can say what they like but the Christian

*But talking of "respect" for others, so the atheist can say what they like but the Christian

But the UK is a Christian country. Most people here are Christian. A third of schools are faith schools according to someone upthread but more than a third of people are religious so you could argue that Christian people in a Christian country are actually underprovided for. Perhaps those with religious views seperate from the majority should be the ones to fund their education if they're not happy with the free option.

“The majority of people in the UK still identify as Christians”

They don’t. A badly written question in the last census suggested that they do by a very small majority, but a more neutral question in a later social attitude survey produced a figure of, I think, 48%.

@HotCrossBunFight I do.

Christians aren’t under provided for. If they were churches would be full and not closing due to lack of interest.

Religion is at the heart of the state in the UK. The Queen is the head of state and the head of the Church of England.

I’m aware of the constitutional status of religion, thanks.

And please don't twist my words. I've no issue with people of other faiths or people of no faith living in the UK but you can't complain when not everything is suited to you.

Why not?

Isn’t that rather the point of democracy? That you campaign for things you care about, or feel are unfair, and if enough people agree with you, then things change?

You’re saying ‘put up (with state services that discriminate against non-Christians) or shut up’. Which is neither tolerant nor respectful.

There are Jewish schools, Muslim schools, Catholic schools. They don't all suit me and my beliefs bit I don't want to ban their existence.

Big of you. Do the majority of Jews or Muslims have the widespread ability to send their children to a school that aligns to their faith of choice?

Are there any secular schools? Is it legal to set up a secular state school?

I don’t want to ban the existence of faith schools - you should try to take your own advice on not twisting others’ words.

I just don’t want taxpayers to fund them, and I don’t want my children (or any children) to have them as their only option for a state-funded education.

I think all children should have an equal start. And that includes a level playing field for all faiths and none in the education system - none privileged, none excluded, disadvantaged or marginalised based on religious faith. Mutual tolerance.

And yet the CofE schools are also apparently overflowing because people are annoyed their non religious kids can't get a place.

And yet the CofE schools are also apparently overflowing because people are annoyed their non religious kids can't get a place

Some areas don’t have enough schools for children. You do understand that right? If faith was taken away as a selection criteria it would mean a fairer chance to get into a school.

Have to love people who accuse otbers of intolerance when they're so intolerant of the largest religious group in the UK.

There's little point in debating with ignorance so I will bow out now. The majority of faith schools teach about ALL faiths and I think this is far more useful than not teaching about it at all.

I think religion used to work to control and provided enough fear to keep people in check if they wouldn't otherwise

The idea everything went to pot as a lack of faith being taught in school I think has some basis... (wouldn't want it back though myself) as we have gone so far the other way stripping all control from the more powerful eg, religion lost power, wealth lost power, skin colour lost power (I am NOT saying any of these were good things and should come back, please don't misunderstand me) but we have been trying to correct mistakes by giving the power back to the one who was controlled... and we have also done this with young people and parents. The child has more control often... parents and teachers become the powerless while kids know all their rights and entitlements now.

Not saying it's something I think we should bring back religion to schools to help with but I think fear from religion did somewhat self moderate children going back a few decades.

jaques try not to jump on a word (retaliate) when you can't think of a better way to respond. I should have said "answer back"., but nothing wrong with retaliate unless you're determined to think about Christianity before the dark ages. It's moved on a bit didn't you know. But ask yourself this, would you so freely and openly talk about any other religion in such a derogatory way.

@HotCrossBunFight

Which part of “I have no issue with people worshipping as they see fit” do you think is intolerant?

Because if you think allowing people to worship as they want but removing the link between church and state is intolerant you don’t understand what the word means.

Ironic therefore you accuse others of ignorance

"My wider objection is the principle of letting proselytising religious group have access to schoolchildren to push their 'message'"

I am with you on this. What the individual child might make of it, or what their religious or atheist background might be, the above is wrong in principle in a state school.

Every single time someone on one of these type of threads suggest that if you hate the Christian aspect of the country so much then you could perhaps consider moving elsewhere that is the response. It's clearly because a better one can't be thought of.^

No, it’s because it’s a tired, rude thoughtless statement that deserves dismissal. As does your hyperbolic misrepresentation of my words.

I’m an immigrant. I’ve been told plenty of times to fuck off back to my own country. It gets wearying to be told that if I think there are any aspects of life here for me or my (British) husband and (British) children that could be better, I should shut my mouth and leave the country. The ‘immigrants should be endlessly grateful, and be active citizens, but not to the point of actually having an opinion’ trope is beyond tired.

When it’s extended to ‘people who don’t believe in my god’ it’s difficult to see the tolerance, kindness or respect for others.

It is not intolerant to suggest it, it seems quite logical to me.

What? To say ‘if someone doesn’t like one religion being privileged above others in the provision of state services in an apparently tolerant and plural country, why don’t they just leave’ is tolerant and respectful? That if people think things could be done better, they should sod off? Ok then.

As an alternative, have you tried listening as a key part of tolerance and respect? Or is it tolerance as long as the privilege of certain Christian sects isn’t threatened?

^But talking of "respect" for others, so the atheist can say what they like but the Christian