Why can’t America ban automatic weapons?

[MaryPoppinsPenguins]

I don’t get it. I honestly don’t. After Sandy Hook that should have been enough... statistics speak for themselves.

Why? What don’t I get?

Of course people kill not guns. But it’s a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than a knife. It’s certainly a lot easier to kill lots of people with guns than knives. The majority of guns in the UK and Ireland are hunting guns. Which are a lot less lethal than a handgun and there are restrictions on their ownership. Suicide attempts with guns are far more lethal than those with drugs. The right to carry a concealed weapon is another huge problem- in Switzerland most guns are locked away at home, people don’t carry them around.

When we lived in the US i could never quite get my head around guns, and how they are viewed by (most Americans). The analogy upthread with alcohol in the UK is quite good - although maybe it's more like motorbikes, in that they've been around for ages; most people have been on one or know someone who has; they are used recreationally; if they were invented now they probably wouldn't be allowed on the roads; if a politician tried to ban them, most people would scoff, even in the face of the stats about how dangerous they are.

I never felt unsafe in the US as a result of guns - as a pp said, gun crime is usually very confined to certain neighbourhoods (it's mostly gang related). Our DCs had a number of drills at school, including fire drills where they left the building and fire drills where they evacuated to another part of the building. They also did active shooter drills, but didn't know that that is what they were practising.

Of course it is horrific that they need to think about the possibility, though when I discussed this recently with a Jewish friend of mine, she said that 15 years ago everyone at her UK Jewish school used to do similar drills because of concerns about bombs and gun attacks. And my friends from Northern Ireland have plenty of stories about seeing guns on the streets and hearing them at night. So we shouldn't be quite so glib that everything here is A-OK because of our gun laws.

Julie808

1. The USA has been 'brainwashed' in the right to own a gun for so long it is ingrained in their society.
2. Their education system isn't very good.
3. Half the population have below average intelligence.
4. The high percentage of literal Bible believers gives them a 'divine' justification to be good 'Christian Soldiers'.
5. Their lack of health care for the poorest means mental health problems aren't treated.
6. They dont believe in collective well being due to the historical threat of communist Russia, so its every man for themselves.
7. And lets not forget the classic, 'Guns dont kill people, people kill people'.

This is just ill-informed bollocks

Guns don’t kill people - what a bullshit line.

Let’s break that down a bit shall we... guns are made as weapons to kill and maim. They serve no other purpose than that.

It’s hardly as if it is coincidental that guns were used in mass shootings. Or that automatic weapons serve a useful purpose in a domestic setting.

They do not.

I saw this quote in the guardian - how can you reconcile these two lines of thought?

It's so bloody needless. Tighten the controls, have a gun amnesty where people who have them can hand them in - some will, even if a lot don't - and improve mental health care by about 1000%.

Where would you rather live in that situation?

In all honesty I would still prefer to live in the US

Your idyllic neighbourhood sounds much scarier now.

Fair enough, as I say I don’t find it scary, I am just commenting my observations not pushing my opinion. However for our lifestyle a gun is a tool, we get our meat from Hunting and fishing. Therefore we have a shotgun for turkey, a rifle for deer, and handguns to ward off bears and coyotes.

The NRA have pushed the “Second Amendment” angle for years but in fact before 2008 in the eyes of the Law the Anendment did not apply to individuals. See here: www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/05/second-amendment-right-to-bear-arms-meaning-history

Sometimes I think Americans don't understand that we do have guns in the UK. For example, my BIL has legal guns because he lives in a rural area and helps with game keeping. Likewise my friend's DB. It's not that no-one in the UK has guns. It's that we have controls and registers and background checks.
Also, as a country we generally believe in collective responsibility. The US doesn't. It will always be about the 'individual's' rights or the 'individual making bad choices'. And as long as that's their attitude then this is going to happen time and time again.
I feel so sorry for the children. They should have the opportunity to experience school without active shooter drills.I wonder if they even realise that their experience is so alien to lots of children in the Western world.

Therefore we have a shotgun for turkey, a rifle for deer, and handguns to ward off bears and coyotes

And what about an automatic weapon.... which is what is being used in these mass shootings?

Why not just ban those...

This website makes for sobering reading: www.gunviolencearchive.org

So far in 2018 in the USA:

1,826 gun deaths
3,142 people injured by guns
30 Mass shootings
69 children under the age of 11 killed or injured by guns

We’re 46 days into the year folks, that’s an average of 39.69 deaths EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

The problem with banning them is partly that the manufacturers are powerful and partly that there's already so many of them out there.

Somehow you'd need to persuade people to hand them in too; at least that way you'd get rid of some of them and make them much harder to get hold of, I guess? This 19 year old apparently had huge numbers of magazines and grenades as well. How did he get them? It's so deeply ingrained in society over there. At 19 I was just glad if I got served a beer without being asked for ID; I'd have had no idea how to fire a gun or buy a magazine or grenade!

America is such an amazing country; it's easily my favourite place to visit, but it has some serious problems with guns and mental health

You absolutely cannot have a gun amnesty in the US where everyone surrenders their guns. It would lead to civil uprising. Although the gun amnesty in Australia is a useful analogy the US population s so much larger and the historic fear of the government disarming the public is so strong it would fail.
Most gun owners in the us are thoroughly responsible people. However the US needs to have a conversation amongst itself about how best to deal with this that goes beyond thoughts and prayers and doesn't descend into "Hillary Clinton/liberal media wants to take my gun and control my life".
We simply don't get the power of the 2nd amendment and what it means to thoroughly decent and reasonable US citizens. Preaching to them will just make them more entrenched.
It looks simple to us: ban private gun ownership or impose heavy prohibitive restrictions like we have here in the UK. That simply makes no sense to many Americans who fear government intervention in their choices.
It's like saying here- scrap the NHS because it's too expensive and doesn't fix endemic problems we have with taking care of our own health. To say that is like sacrilege. To say repeal the 2nd amendment is like that with bells on.

I’m sure other countries have banned them and had amnesties.

Saying “how’s can you get people to hand them in”, seems a cowards way out. At least if they were banned, then it makes it harder to obtain new ones and gradually things would improve.

I firmly believe something can be done.

But surely heavy restrictions on purchasing guns will mean all those 'decent and responsible' Americans will still get to keep their guns and mentally unstable lunatics who want to kills loads of children in a school won't ?

And what about an automatic weapon.... which is what is being used in these mass shootings?

In my state fully automatic weapons are illigal, we can only have semi automatic rifles.

But surely heavy restrictions on purchasing guns will mean all those 'decent and responsible' Americans will still get to keep their guns and mentally unstable lunatics who want to kills loads of children in a school won't ?

Not really the black market would just expand, it is scarily easy to get a gun in the US.

You absolutely should be able to have a gun amnesty in the US. Most people who care about children and other people should look at the stats and be so horrified that they give up their guns.

But I agree it's so deeply ingrained that I can't see it happening. I actually meant an amnesty on the automatic weapons that cause this sort of carnage. Surely even the most dedicated gun hugger can't explain convincingly why he/she needs that sort of weapon - you don't need it for hunting and a less devastating weapon is still going to protect you (if you really believe guns do that, which of course some people do).

The pro gun crowd on my American friends' Facebook pages are terrifying. They really think that the answer to guns is MOAR GUNZ. They really believe that if they'd been there with their gun, they'd have stopped it. It's insane!

There is a really goo Last Week Tonight on gun control here
www.google.at/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwi3u9qPzKfZAhWPbFAKHRQpACwQwqsBCCswAA&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov

Seems the majority of Americans favour gun control but the combination of the political system and the efficacy of the NRA make it impossible.

FWIW, I know probably 20 Americans and they would all be in favour of gun control. Calling Americans stupid and ignorant is over simplistic and unfair.

I think Kursk is the poster who was fretting the other week about visiting family in Surrey (?) because the UK is apparently like downtown Aleppo.

It’s the exact mentality of ‘I’ll have a gun just in case’ rather than ‘my community is safe, why would I need one?’ that astounds me.

They’re not illegal either everywhere which is the problem.

Australia managed to ban firearms after mass shootings

I’ve not seen any sensible solutions from the likes of the NRA... they have a strict media policy of saying very little after a shooting - hence why trump has only offered prayers.

Next thing the NRA (and trump) will do is blame the individual. They’re “mentally” ill

Screenshot of the page I linked to up thread

believeitornot - yes but they're only mentally ill if they're white, don't forget that!?

@Kursk - that’s not what you said. You said your husband and most people you know have permits to carry concealed handguns. That is patently not for hunting or bears

And the poster who compared the NHS to gun control - please. Don’t. The NHS has its problems but at the heart of it it’s not to keep access to instruments built solely to kill things. I mean, I get your point, but it seems offensive to compare the two.

It’s not even about a gun amnesty though, I agree that wouldn’t work. They won’t even put tighter controls in place, or ban certain types of weapons. For them, it is really an all or nothing situation and they completely fail to see the various steps they could take to make people safer.

It upsets me a lot thinking about it.

Australia is another example of a country who finally reacted to mass shootings and implemented proper gun control. Voila. No more mass shootings :)

I highly recommend watching Jim Jefferies about this topic

What’s the rationale for thinking the black market will expand? That assumes that most people will want one.

What’s the alternative then.

Just to throw another thought into this pot... you realise there are entire conspiracy theories in the US that tragedies such as Sandy Hook never actually happened? It's mind boggling.