Why can’t America ban automatic weapons?

[MaryPoppinsPenguins]

I don’t get it. I honestly don’t. After Sandy Hook that should have been enough... statistics speak for themselves.

Why? What don’t I get?

I'm sorry - I still don't really understand what you thought about my suggestion.

Could the rest of the world force the US into changing its gun laws by hitting the country where it hurts, in its wallet.

Could the rest of the world force the US into changing its gun laws by hitting the country where it hurts, in its wallet.

Like Iraq, Iran, North Korea, or Syria when they rejected the dollar ? Probably not the best idea. Your missiles can reach anywhere.

I wasn't really talking about rejecting the dollar.

More like social activism, where people choose not to buy US-made products if they can.

Probably a stupid idea. Just trying to find something that those who are feeling frustrated and powerless can actually do to try to make a difference.

I don't think you'll get bombed for not buying iPhones btw...

All we can realistically hope for us that little by little we chip away at the rationale used by gun owners, and continue to use evidence based arguments. Not all Americans are pro gun, and I believe some, albeit a few, can eventually be persuaded.
One day, things might change. There might be a truly transformative government. There might be an inspirational President. Those days dont come out of nowhere though, they happen on the back of countless no-hopers such as us who keep beating a drum, however distant it may sound.

More like social activism, where people choose not to buy US-made products if they can.

How ? iPhones (for example) aren't made in the US anyway. Stop buying them and half of China starves.

All we can realistically hope for us that little by little we chip away at the rationale used by gun owners, and continue to use evidence based arguments. Not all Americans are pro gun, and I believe some, albeit a few, can eventually be persuaded.

Yes - and I think personal persuasion is really important. I tell friends, neighbours, colleagues - anyone I can think of - how I feel. I try not to do it in a condescending way but more a 'This is a way we could reduce shootings, don't you think it's worth a try?' kind of way.

What do they call that? The 'nudge' effect?

If teachers are armed, the student with a desire for mass killing will just have to scale up. I can see them bringing bigger and more weapons to the ball. Perhaps even new tactics of ambushing classes. If schools are now going to be the front line of the war then you just need to make sure you have superior weaponry and overwhelm your opponents with shock and awe. A new era of mass killings could be ushered in by Trump.

Julie I couldn't help but chortle at that last post. It's tragic subject matter but I like the satirical spin your putting on it

How ? iPhones (for example) aren't made in the US anyway. Stop buying them and half of China starves.

Yes, I shouldn't have said US-made. But I think you know what I mean - by choosing not to buy products that contribute significantly to the US economy people from other countries might make the US pay attention.

Is this not worth exploring?

Personally I'm at the stage of looking for anything that might nudge the US government in the right direction.

But then I am on the south side of Chicago right now...

I I'm sure someone mentioned it but there is wee three armed guards at the site anyway

It is very, very wrong for a civilised country to ask teachers to kill students. There is a world of difference between firing a gun to shoot a target or hunt an animal and using a gun to kill a child.

In hind sight it's easy to imagine the circumstances when a teacher could stop a mass shooting, but the reality is that the police make mistakes and they deal with guns and criminals every day. What happens when a teacher makes a mistake? What happens when a teacher thinks a child is reaching for a gun, but it turns out to be something else? What if somebody else gets injured or killed?

Is it the teachers fault if they can't stop the shooter?

What if great maths teachers just don't want to shoot people?

Are teachers and police and soldiers supposed to share the same qualities?

Are teachers going to be chosen according to their ability to stop a suicidal teenager grabbing their gun?

Trump is now saying:

"What I said was to look at the possibility of giving concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions".

He thinks 20% of teachers have military experience, can instantly identify 'savage sickos' and they could "immediately fire back"? He watches too many action films . Roughly 1 in 3 Americans own guns, and it's very unlikely that 2/3 of them would happily kill a person (despite what some of them might imagine).

Teachers might be able to help Trump with his English, but they aren't a cheap way to solve the gun problem.

Yes, I shouldn't have said US-made. But I think you know what I mean - by choosing not to buy products that contribute significantly to the US economy people from other countries might make the US pay attention.

That in itself is an impossibility. Every single electronic device is probably paying a cent or two to Uncle Sam in royalties or licensing. As some Brits are now finding out, some medicines too.

I think the bottom line is the US needs to want to change, and that has to come from within. No amount of foreign hectoring will change that - except to make it perversely worse. As Americans famously don't take no shit from no one.

I wonder how "Saturday Night Special" went down, when Lynyrd Skynyrd performed it in their home state ?

That in itself is an impossibility

Well, I disagree - I don't think it's all or nothing. But there's not much I can do to make it happen I guess.

Just like there isn't apparently much I can do to make gun control happen within the US.

Oh well :-(

Imagine what armed teachers would do for discipline though?

Teacher: "Are you talking back to me boy?" [Pulls jacket aside to show his piece].
Student: " Um, no sir, no sir, please dont shoot me sir, I will be quiet."

Just like there isn't apparently much I can do to make gun control happen within the US.

Never say never ...

Maybe start a sweepstake ? Take peoples bets on what the number of people killed by gun this week will be ? Get it spot on, you win a TV. No winners, roll it over to next week.

You could have extra prizes for getting the spread of sex and ages right ? Maybe a bonus on the state and city ?

Have a regular weekday draw (be ironic if gun deaths went down because people were all tuning in) ?

All in shocking bad taste, granted. But at least it's not thoughts and prayers.

Do gun shops ever get shot up ?

Do gun shops ever get shot up ?

Believe me - I've considered it!

Imagine what armed teachers would do for discipline though?

You have to go to Texas to know what polite is. (I have).

Apparently there is an NRA TV channel.

So, like Fox, they stream hatred and propaganda into homes and ignorant minds 24/7.

Depressing.

Personally I'm at the stage of looking for anything that might nudge the US government in the right direction
I think you are whistling in the wind, I think Trump will get what he wants and schools will have armed staff.
I was appalled when I heard that Trump had put forward armed teachers as a solution but on reflection I think he'd not have said that unless he was confident that it would fall on fertile ground.

It's so shocking to us because the absence of firearms is a given in our culture, having a gun is a deviant position to take.
In the US the right to own a gun probably feels a bit like the right to have a dog/cat/bicycle does to us?

I don't think the problem is that all Americans love their guns.

Most Americans support stricter gun regulations and 2/3 of them don't even own a gun.

However, the senate is made up of 100 senators, 2 for each state. Some states like Canada have the population of a reasonable sized country (40 million) and others like Wyoming are about the size of Sheffield.

Americans seems to be happy with this system, I suppose because it gives individual states a lot of independence. (Liberals would probably be happy for Canada to have more influence, but less happy about Texas.) However, it also means that what happens in US government at a federal level doesn't necessarily represent what most Americans think.

Here we go, NRA hits back, European socialists.......

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43158994

Posted to soon
Calling those asking for more gun control European-style socialists

indeed Julie, then you would need mounted weapons on the wall, activated by separate security in room monitoring all classes in case the teacher decides to go crazy so security could take the teacher down. Desks need upgrading into bullet proof shields, etc etc etc. Them you would need another layer of security to watch the security in charge of the the secure room with access to mounted guns and so on.

So how does arming the teachers solve the problem? What if a teacher goes crazy and shoots the kids? Will all the kids need to be given guns and training just in case? Will the nearest SAHPs be required to have guns and be trained so they can rush in?