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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why can’t America ban automatic weapons?

905 replies

MaryPoppinsPenguins · 14/02/2018 22:42

I don’t get it. I honestly don’t. After Sandy Hook that should have been enough... statistics speak for themselves.

Why? What don’t I get?

OP posts:
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26
TheBrilliantMistake · 17/02/2018 17:37

Bluepears isn't saying it's ok or acceptable, they are just trying to be more accurate about the figures folks have thrown out.
Also, as horrific as a mass shooting is to our sensibilities, we still kill more people with cigarettes and alcohol, not to mention cars, but our outrage isn't quite the same. That's because a 'mass' number of deaths gets reported on a grand scale and we feel a greater sense of injustice about it.

We don't seem to care as much about hundreds of people who'll die through gun usage in Baltimore or New York etc. Getting rid of guns would have more impact on those figures than the school shootings. Either way, reducing guns will reduce deaths and I'm all for that.

IStillMissBlockbuster · 17/02/2018 17:52

Oh yeah, you're right, more people die from lung cancer or liver disease. Weekly mass murder in schools isn't so bad Hmm.

TheBrilliantMistake · 17/02/2018 18:00

Oh yeah, you're right, more people die from lung cancer or liver disease. Weekly mass murder in schools isn't so bad

We are up in arms (rightly) because of the shocking NATURE of the deaths. I am very anti-gun, but even I can see it's not the biggest killer by a long shot.
If you want to save the most lives, guns wouldn't be the first thing to get rid of. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still want to take them off the streets.

TeasndToast · 17/02/2018 18:05

You can hardly equate cigarettes and alcohol, things that mainly adults die from through their own choice to abuse them with the mass murder of children by civilians with guns!!! Some of the arguments on here are just nuts.

TheBrilliantMistake · 17/02/2018 18:37

Have you never heard of child abuse from drunken parents?
Have you never heard of drink drivers?
Have you never heard of passive smoking?

The point is that there are a lot of things that kill. More teenagers die in car crashes than through school shootings, but we don''t raise the age of driving. The outrage about gun deaths is justified, but it's very selective.

TheBrilliantMistake · 17/02/2018 18:39

We are up in arms now, because it hurts our sensibilities. In two weeks, people move on to another subject, and that's precisely what Americans do every time this type of incident happens. We're shocked because it's multiple shootings of middle class children, not because of shootings in general.

TheBrilliantMistake · 17/02/2018 18:52

301 gun deaths in Baltimore alone last year. We turn a blind eye to that because frankly anonymous black deaths in a tough Baltimore don't quite bother us as much as white ones at school.

3,457 shooting victims in Chicago last year.

Make no mistake guns aren't working for American society. But we can't just be selective and upset when it's at a school and turn a blind eye elsewhere.

TheBrilliantMistake · 17/02/2018 18:54

Over 10,000 people died as a result of drink driving in the USA last year.
Not all were drivers - plenty were innocent bystanders

TheDowagerCuntess · 17/02/2018 19:04

So, what...?

Death by mass shooting in a place of learning is dwarfed by road deaths.

People can attempt to address more than one issue at a time?

I don't get the argument at all. It's not 'being selective'.

Rinoachicken · 17/02/2018 19:09

The thing is, with drinking, smoking, driving a car - there is an accepted varying level risk that you may die early or have an accident. Those are risks that adults choose take, as they are activities only adults can engage in.

The risk of being shot, as a child attending school should, IMO, be close to zero.

ToffeeUp · 17/02/2018 19:20

Drinking, smoking, driving, all have laws to adhere to such as minimum age. Guns can just be traded on Facebook in some states.

Bloke on the news just now said gun laws won't stop the killing because you can kill someone with a pencil.... that is what the parents of the students have to listen to.

TheDowagerCuntess · 17/02/2018 19:24

The absolute cognitive dissonance.

Yes, cars, pencils, knives - whatever - can all kill.

But their primary purpose is to get people from A to B, to write and draw with, to cut things and cook, etc, etc, etc.

Guns have one purpose and one purpose only - to kill.

Therefore, in all well-adjusted countries with sensible thought processes, they're a regulated, controlled item. And the sky doesn't fall on our heads.

FannytheW0nderDog · 17/02/2018 19:28

Really?? The murder rate in the UK is around a few hundred per year. In the US literally thousands of people get killed by guns - many of them children. Even taken in the context of the larger population ours is a much safer country. Check your facts first please.

Ructation · 17/02/2018 19:36

3,457 shooting victims in Chicago last year.

Chicago is a classic example of the problems that gun control in the US faces. It had a handgun ban, but it was overturned by the Supreme Court for being unconstitutional.

And although you can't buy a gun without a permit or a waiting period in Illinois, you can in bordering states, which really illustrates the fact that gun control needs to be federally implemented.

Julie8008 · 17/02/2018 19:39

Have you never heard of child abuse from drunken parents?
If anyone has any evidence of that we send in children's services, we arrest the parent, in the UK we bring in more controls every time we find a way to stop it and make it better. When it hits the news the whole country demands changes are made so it never happens again.

Have you never heard of drink drivers? We have made massive progress on that in the UK, its a lot rarer now. Most people would be straight on to the police if someone leaves a pub and got into a driving seat, its not socially accepted here now.

Have you never heard of passive smoking?
We have massive smoking controls in the UK. You cant display cigarettes for sale anymore, cant sell to a child, cant smoke inside any public place, cant smoke in a car with children, cant even smoke in some outside places, you can be fined for dropping a cigarette stub, you can get free help to quit from a doctor, they are taxed to death, they can only be sold in plain packages, we educate children against smoking in schools... and on and on

The point is that there are a lot of things that kill And most of the world do things reduce/minimise things that kill. With the glaring exception of America who do nothing to stop the massive killings with guns.

More teenagers die in car crashes than through school shootings, but we don''t raise the age of driving Here in the UK we are dealing with that, its very hard for a (18/19 yo) teenager to get insurance to drive a car, they usually have to have a black box monitoring their driving and their are more controls on what they can do with greater punishments if they break any of them.

The outrage about gun deaths is justified, but it's very selective It might be selective in America but not in the rest of the world. in the UK we are outraged at how your health care system treats people.

USA used to be a beacon of liberty to the rest of the world, now most countries just feel sorry for it.

OlennasWimple · 17/02/2018 19:45

This thread is really interesting

UK MNers: I don't get why the US doesn't ban guns

US MNers: well, it's not that simple

UK MNers: of course it is! Americans don't care about children!

US MNers: they do, but the US isn't like the UK in many ways, including the prevailing attitude to guns

UK MNers: no-one needs a gun!

US MNers: that's not always true

UK MNers: the US is so unsafe! Your children are at risk of being shot every time they leave the house

US MNers: that's not true

UK MNers: we don't believe you

and so on, and so on....

TheDowagerCuntess · 17/02/2018 19:47

Since the dawn of time, the way humans have progressed and learnt has been through trial and error. Making mistakes and learning, and moving forward. That is the driving force behind us as a species.

But not America. Not when it comes to guns.

TheDowagerCuntess · 17/02/2018 19:49

Yes, the utter helpless passivity on the part of the US when it comes to guns is quite remarkable, isn't it?

Lovelylovelyladies · 17/02/2018 19:54

DEAR AMERICA,

How about turning your thoughts and prayers into actions and solutions.

"God be with you" "they're in a better place"
"I will pray for the family"

It does fuck all but make you feel like a "nice" person doing a "nice" thing for the "poor families who's children are now angels"

Get off your ass, start campaigning and marching for change.

Children will carry on being shot to death unless you get up and say something.

PLEASE.

THANK YOU,

BRITIAN.

Ructation · 17/02/2018 19:55

Get off your ass, start campaigning and marching for change.

You really think we're all just sitting on our arses here doing nothing?

Lovelylovelyladies · 17/02/2018 19:56

FUCK OFF spelling mistake ruining my rant...

Thank you,

BRITAIN

ivykaty44 · 17/02/2018 19:59

I’ll ask the question again

How many school shootings have taken place in US in 2018 and how many in Europe in 2018

Anyone got any idea on the figures and how many killed?

ToffeeUp · 17/02/2018 20:02

The majority of UK posters are not talking about a ban but gun control/tighter rules and do recognise the difficulties involved.
But just how do you discuss/understand this when you get answers like 'we need guns just in case' and knives kill too

TheDowagerCuntess · 17/02/2018 20:03

It would also be interesting to know how many school shootings routinely take place in developing countries (where young people arguably have far more on their plate, mental health-wise).

Kursk · 17/02/2018 20:05

ivykaty44

The like below may provide the info you want. You are right we shouldn’t be comparing UK:US crime stats. Given the population and landmass comparing US:EU would be more appropriate.

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Crime_and_criminal_justice_statistics

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