PIP benefit fraud?

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Posting here for traffic.

Dss1 (20) is currently at college. He lives with paternal grandparents and has for the past 2-3 years. In that time he has held down a couple of part time jobs as well as attending his college course. He has a small amount of savings because GPs didn't charge board, covered all food/petrol costs etc. His girlfriend also lives there with him.

Unfortunately, FIL passed away recently and Mil is unable to continue to cover the full costs. Dss isnt working at the moment but is actively looking and applying for jobs daily.

He has attempted to apply for job seekers allowance but was told that his mother is claiming PIP/DLA for him and he needs her permission to apply for jsa.

He wasn't aware that she was getting this benefit, he certainly does not need it and, since he doesn't live with her, it is not supporting him. She will not cancel the claim or remove herself as his appointee so he can cancel it.

Does anybody know what he can do? I have advised him to visit Citizens advice and possibly look into getting some legal advice but he's worried he may get his mum into trouble

He's spoken to jsa on the phone and explained the situation but they are still saying he needs his mother's permission before he can do anything

How old is he? Parents can only claim DLA until the child is 16, after that the child has to claim in his own right. If he is older than 16, which if he is at college he probably is, then he HAS to sort this because she is claiming as him or she is his appointee which means he does not have capacity to claim. It's going to really screw any benefit payments in the future.

I'm not usually a fan of reporting but in this case you should, you can do this anonymously.

www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

Jsa have told him he can't claim for himself as he has an appointee. If you have an Appointee it's because you lack the capacity to deal with your own benefit affairs Appointee therefore has to claim on his behalf. His mother is his appointee and the only benefit he is "in receipt" of is PIP or DLA. He was not aware of this claim until recently. He does not need an appointee. He should be aware of the claim and receiving the money himself as he is 20. His mother is pocketing the money herself rather than it going to support DSS. He is not actually disabled anyway so entitlement to DLA/PIP is in doubt aswell. I think that sums it up!

It's also possible his DLA claim ended already and she's just still his appointee on file.

What twoply said (& my posts on previous page).
He needs to ensure his mother is removed as appointee. Once you are appointed for DLA it applies to everything. So I was made my son’s appointee at 16 for DLA and then that automatically transferred to everything else related to DWP. So if I ring Motability or when I applied for ESA for my son I just explained I was his appointee and they could check that from their end. I didn’t & don’t need to provide proof or anything - I’m on the computer system.

There should have been an informal meeting at his home when he was turning 16. God knows how the mother got around that as the DWP assessor will have wanted to see him.

My son doesn’t have capacity, so he can’t claim PIP/ESA etc himself

Surely it's still in his name and they had to meet you both in order to judge his capacity?

I agree, it sounds like she’s his appointee. He needs to contact DWP to have her removed, this might involve a meeting. Then he needs to stop the claim.

At some point (possibly from 16th bday) your DSS has been assessed as being incapable of managing his own affairs either by lack of mental capacity or severe physical disability. As a result his mother was made his appointee and authorised to claim benefits on his behalf. This means the DWP were correct, he needs his M to apply for JSA for him.

The mother should, of course, have been using this money to support your DSS e.g passing it to the grandparents. The chances are M also claims Carers Allowance alongside PIP/DLA.

There are only three grounds to revoke to appointeeship:

1. Where the appointee is not acting appropriately
2. Evidence that the 'customer' is capable of acting for themselves
3. Where the apppointee becomes incapable themselves.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/procedures-for-dealing-with-agents-appointees-attorneys-deputies-and-third-parties This link may help

Does your DSS have a Social Worker? They should be able to help him.

Is it sounds as if she has set herself up as his DWP appointee.

I agree, Devilish.

I had a client whose mother was her appointee and was taking all her PIP (£550 a month). The DWP didn't want to know, they took the line that the client had an appointee because she couldn't manage her own affairs, and therefore they couldn't revoke the appointeeship.

To get it sorted, we had to raise a safeguarding with Adult Social Care. They were able to satisfy the DWP that the client was competent and DWP started paying the PIP direct to the client. The client was never able to get back the 4 years worth of PIP that her mother had stolen, and the mother was claiming carer's allowance as well. The DWP didn't prosecute and didn't take any steps to reclaim the money she'd got fraudulently.

The girl's mother was also getting a small public sector pension due to the client from her late father's employment. She'd falsely claimed that the client had remained in FTE post-16, when she hadn't. The public sector body are making her repay that.

OP, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that your DSS is entitled to PIP, and it would make a huge difference to him if he is. If he was assessed and got it awarded, and knowing how hard it is to get it when you ARE entitled to it, I'd say he probably is.

My first step would be to to support him to ring the PIP enquiry line: 0800 121 4433, and see what they say. They may well refuse to do anything, and say his appointee has to do it.

Captain - it’s paid into my account (a separate one, but the DWP don’t count). They met him briefly around his 16th birthday at home. He’s non-verbal and didn’t hang around long but the forms were signed. After those had been signed no other checks. None needed for ESA. Applied and got it paid into my account (the separate one I keep in my name for him).

We (dh and I) have also recently become deputies for him. That is far more involved- needs a proper capacity assessment and record sharing and keeping with the Court of Protection. Now we have that we could open a current account which includes his name (wasn’t a possibility before). It also allows us to sign tenancies etc on his behalf. It’s a very highly regulated process.

DWP appointee not very regulated at all. Once you’re appointed it transfers across all DWP matters and there are no checks as to how the money is used.

Devilishpyjamas
Is it likely, knowing what we know about atos assessors, that they would meet with someone e who has no disability, has capacity to hold down a job and go to meeting himself and decide he lacks the capacity to manage a bank account.

It's hard enough when you have a diagnoses of autism and are trying to explain areas you need assistance.

It isn’t atos. It’s all separate.

So if you are receiving DLA for your child that will stop at 16 (don’t know what happens to move it into their name) unless you have this meeting. In ds1’s case they forgot the meeting so his DLA did just stop. I rang, they sent the DWP assessor out within about two weeks. She met is briefly at home. Ds1 can’t talk, but skipped in and out of the room. She filled out a short form and hey presto I was his appointee.

PIP switch happened later. Ds1 wasn’t seen (unusual but there was shed loads of written professional evidence & an explanation as to why they may not want to see him).

ESA was all forms and phone (by me). Work capability assessment - again usually people are seen. Ds1 wasn’t but again they were provided with the same evidence as I had provided for PIP.

My PIPassessment was with ATOS, they were horrible.

Yeah not sure why he’s been told he can’t claim JSA because of his pip without mums permission.

Obviously the money isn’t meant for her. It’s meant for him.

First point of call would be to call and change the account details of where his PIP is going, and explaining the details to them and asking for them to investigate further.

Then he can call and get himself on jobseekers because he’s receiving his benefit. But sill weird they referred to the PIP and him needing her permission for it at 20’ and not living with her.

He won’t be able to change account details if she is his appointee. He will need to prove he has capacity first of all.

To be set up as someone’s appointee, someone from the dwp would have come out and spoken to dss as they need him to consent. But I imagine that was established when he was younger.

He needs to contact the dwp and tell them he longer needs an appointee and no longer wants to claim for pip as his condition has improved.

I’m betting his mother is also claiming carers allowance for him too. You don’t have to live together to get that, just state that you provide 35 (or it may be 37) hours direct care each week.

If possible I would check that this really has happened and that the JSA haven't made a mistake. If it is true, I would see a solicitor because if he has been assessed as having a disability then your DSS or his grandparents (if he is incapable of organising his finances) should have received the money rather than her. Not only should the payments stop or go to him (if he has a disability) but she should be forced to give the money she previously claimed to him.

He does not have to give consent - my son cannot consent (which is why I carried on receiving his money).

I am intrigued how the mother managed to persuade the DWP that her son didn’t have capacity to manage his financial affairs but it seems that’s what she’s managed to do.

Hope your ds gets it sorted. Unfortunately I don't think it will be as simple as phoning them because they have it that he's not capable of managing his affairs, he might need a doctor/social worker to say that he's ok to do this then cancel the claim or change the bank details.

Yep - it will be complicated to untangle. I suspect he may need a capacity assessment from a medical professional. Hopefully ringing DWP will tell them what evidence they need to see to remove his appointee.

Once the appointee is removed he can change the bank details with a phone call. But he won’t he able to do anything while he has an appointee.

hungryhippo the OP's DSS has been assessed (at some point) as lacking capacity to manage his own affairs and his M legally appointed to act on his behalf. His being 20 makes no difference, currently he has no 'voice' and no say in how his affairs are managed. An appointee is placed in a very powerful position, sadly some take advantage.

Yeah not sure why he’s been told he can’t claim JSA because of his pip without mums permission

If his mother is his appointee, as far as the DWP is concerned DSS doesn't have capacity to manage his own affairs and therefore can't make a claim for any DWP benefits. His appointee has to do it all for him.

I think that's why he can't claim, nothing to do with PIP, and why he needs to start the process of getting the appointeeship revoked.

Actually, shouldn't he be claiming Universal Credit anyway?

Universal credit not everywhere yet. Although thought it would be ESA rather than JSA

Devilish, the appointee can relinquish the appointeeship on the basis that the claimant now has capacity.

If his DM has been on the fiddle, she may be prepared to do that rather than have her finances looked into closely by DWP. That's what happened in another case I advised on. When the appointee met with the safeguarding officer, the appointee realised the game was up and agreed to relinquish the role.

The local adult safeguarding team were brilliant in every case like this I've had to advise on. It's also more common than I ever imagined - we get a case about once a month.

Op your dss is lucky to have you in his life and looking out for him.