Feminism on MN confuses gender equality with men and women being the same

[Bookwormqueen]

Why is it hard for people to conceive that men and women may have innate differences in the way they behave and their preferences etc? After all they are different physically and in their hormones, so is it so difficult to see that their brains may be wired and function differently aswell?
Why does anyone who expresses that they may have different preferences get accused of holding sexist views? To be fair, I only find these views very prevalent on MN and I find this quite naive
I believe in gender equality, but I also believe each gender has its strengths and weaknesses (physically and emotionally) and these differences should work to complement each other rather than competing and trying to be the same in the name of feminism

You have no control group or reason to suggest socialization is the cause

Actually we do. Research Stereotype Threat. It's well documented.

Again, I never said it was the sole cause. But a big cause and one we can do something about. You've put words into my mouth about all the other things so there's no point me explaining what I mean over and over because you're not listening.

1: yes they are. See: lady brain/male brain they literally deny biological reality. I have dissected brains in front of them, shown them the differences and they will still crow ' well black cab drivers....'

Are you referring to their shorter life span, their homeless levels, their rate of violent victimization, genital mutilation, worse educational outcomes at primary, secondary, undergrad?

say it with me

All dobermans are dogs , not all dogs are dobermans

So if there are clear differences, it will be obvious if you do a brain scan on trans women that their brains are female. And that would be an end to all the agro. That would be wonderful.

Mawalls, oh I see. You're one of those.

Research Stereotype Threat.

oh my god, oh my actual god

Stereotype threat is not real, its like talking to someone from the 1500 about germ theory and you are yakking on about blood letting

www.radiolab.org/story/stereothreat/
replicationindex.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/hidden-figures-replication-failures-in-the-stereotype-threat-literature/
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rabble-rouser/201512/is-stereotype-threat-overcooked-overstated-and-oversold
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat#Criticism

there is no point in discussing any further, you are clearly uneducated on the matter and seem to have Dunning-Krugered yourself from reading tumblr and Cosmo.

Good Night

thanks @Mawalls for your posts.

Why does it MATTER if men & women are different? Why get so invested in this question?

I wonder if people insisting 'all difference is social construct' subconsciously buy into the narrative that the differences can make one sex more important or valuable or reliably predict which roles we can usually do. Which almost never do they (how we contribute to making a new baby being a very obvious time when sex does matter).

Acknowledging average differences doesn't = justification for unfair restrictions on either sex.

You will often find those invested in Conflict theory will excuse any restrictions if the name of The Greater Good

These women obviously were not raised in country where unjust treatment can always be excused.

They refuse to acknowledge differences exist, therefore the cause is political and be coerced. They can excuse unequal treatment and discrimination, they can control and restrain actions and worst of all they can compel actions and speech.

And because nothing will ever work, like Mao, like Stalin, like Castro they will claim more always needs to done until we are all androgynous clones with incidental haircuts

And before anyone slippery slopes please consider- what would you have said in 2013 if someone told you 8 year boys would be twerking in pride parades, in drag clubs, employed by erotic clothing manufacturer as a model, if the parliamentary committee meant to scrutinize the GRA was taking advice from someone who took their teenage son abroad for an illegal castration and that their organization was the first port of call for schools?

What are you talking about, illegal castration??

Gosh, Mawalls. This was an interesting thread, and I am interested in the subject matter and would like to “educate myself” and understand your point.

But you’re writing insults and not being clear.

Your point is that female biology is different, yes?

And that the biological differences lead to discrimination in medical sciences so that “women’s issues” aren’t given prominence?

I think you’re on the feminists side, but you’re weirdly being aggressive about it and missing the point everyone else is making.

I do totally agree with you that male and female bodies are different'

Then you are something of a heretic, there are many many people who will passionately deny this and there is a lot of pressure on people to deny this and cease any research

Pretty much all the trans debate centres on sex being different, a biological reality, but gender being a construct.

Mawalls why are you being so rude and aggressive in your posts for no apparent reason? You seem very angry about this subject? It's coming across a bit strange to be honest.

Mawalls last post sounded like anti-trans propaganda. Shame because I agreed about biology and that hormones literally make our brains different (as well as our body).

Don't the French have a good attitude? Celebrate the differences. The differences to be cherished not there to define or restrict us.

OP you said 'Yes I am using gender to describe sex'

Could you explain why?

Gender is a fluid social-based artificial human affectation.

Sex is biology.

They are very different.

Yabu and missing the point

Gender is a fluid social-based artificial human affectation.

Sex is biology.

This is a sociological framework not a description of reality

In your opinion Mawells.

Sex is biology.

This is a sociological framework not a description of reality

Eh?

OP, do you know what I believe in? I believe in individuals being allowed to make their own minds up about where their individual strengths lie without being held back or having their lives made difficult by statistical differences between the group they belong to and some other group they don't belong to.

Do you know what I also believe? That it is normal and natural for women to take account of the fact that the way our financial system works, and has worked since times immemorial, any woman who devotes herself to home-making is going to be financially screwed when she gets old unless she has a solvent and reliable man who stays around and provides or leaves her a substantial amount in his will.

I'm afraid I can't make any sense of your posts, Mawell. My lady brain doesn't do conflict, all that shouting and impatience is turning me off.

Brain scans show differences on human brains, not on job descriptions. We simply don't know whether a typical "male" brain is better for that lucrative CEO job; it's just been assumed that it is, because it is lucrative.

Historically, you can follow how some jobs change from typically male to typically-female-and-is-only-suitable-for-the-feminine-brain. It is almost invariably associated with a drop in status and remuneration.

This is an example of the impact artificial gender has on sex and one of the many ways that women are disadvantaged because of gendering.

BBC news today

Yes most men are stronger than most women due to have a higher muscle percentage.

You’d think this would mean they’d be doing work that involves lots of heaving lifting- like caring for a toddler- but no.

Also, the nursing, Sevendown. All the people I know who have wrecked their backs lifting elderly people in nursing homes have been female. Don't these people know about biology?

You'd have thought a delicate female would be better suited for the job of Chairman of the Board, while the men do the lifting that biology has clearly intended them to do.

brain features correctly predicted subjects’ sex about 69–77% of the time

Well exactly. By guessing/tossing a coin, you'd expect to get it right 50% of the time. Neuroscientists can do better than tossing a coin, but they still only do 50% better than just guessing - and I bet that most of the time they are going on size of the brain.

I seriously doubt you have any expert knowledge, mawalls. You don't seem to understand much of what you are copy & pasting or linking.

Brain scans show differences on human brains, not on job descriptions. We simply don't know whether a typical "male" brain is better for that lucrative CEO job; it's just been assumed that it is, because it is lucrative.

This^^.

It’s like when that plonker Baren Cohen conducted an experiment where the baby boys spent a bit longer staring at mobiles than at faces and concluded that boys like mechanics and girls like caring.

There is too much inference going on. Just stop! And let kids make up their own minds without telling them what they’re likely to be.

rolls eyes at OP