- to be fed-up of people thinking that my generation had it easy regarding housing?

[PUER125]

I often read comments on Mumsnet, saying that housing was affordable in a way that it isn't now.
If we take todays mortgage of £200,000 at 3% interest, a repayment mortgage would cost £11,376 per year. This equates to 42% of the average UK wage of £27,000.
In 1990, having left my husband whilst pregnant with my second child, and buying him out of the marital home, my mortgage was £40,000 and the interest rate 15%. Repayments were £6144 per year and the average wage was £13,760. This equated to 44.65% in mortgage costs.
And whilst I am having a rant, I am also fed-up of young people complaining that they will have to work until they are 67 before they can claim their pension.
With the majority of young people going to university, they don't enter the work force until they're 21, giving them a working life of 46 years.
My generation left school at 16/18, and we too shall work until we are 67. A work life of 49 years.
Earlier generations started work at 14/15 and retired at 65, a working life of 50 years, many of them worked in manual labour.
Each generation has their own difficulties and hardships. I shouldn't like to be starting out now; nor should I have liked to belong to an older generation.
Whilst being a single-parent, working full-time, was not easy, I coped; just as countless women before and after me have.
Can we please have a little more understanding of generations other than our own, instead of the resentment so often found on these pages?

Thank you all for your comments. I agree that youngsters of today have a very difficult future regarding housing and Pensions. My OP was merely suggesting that the older generation is not wholly to blame for the current situation; as I said earlier, each generation faces its own difficulties.
And, whilst I am not stupid and know that people of my generation went to university, it was far from the norm at my school, and I was lucky that I had been allowed to stay on to take A levels.

I think the point is, every generation has its challenges, and the biggest one facing the millennials is housing. I’m in my 50s with adult offspring and I really worry for my children and how they will ever get on the housing ladder.

On the other hand, those who have bought a house in the last decade, mortgage payments have been incredibly cheap, and thinking back to the scary times of high interest rates, it was a massive pressure. They may have only been sky high for a small number of years but the norm was around 6-8 % which is massive to how it’s been for the last ten years. But then again you have the problem of trying to raise a deposit which wasn’t a problem for my generation.

On the other hand I’m very aware that if my children decide to have babies, they’ll have a swathe of rights available to them that my generation didn’t : a whole year of maternity leave (I had 12 weeks) paternity leave (zero) transferable parental leave (zero) free hours at nursery (nothing)

There were no tax credits when us 50 + year olds were bringing up small children. You had to pay all your bills, full childcare included out of your earnings. So for many of us that was full childcare from 12 weeks until almost 5 years when they started school! Nowadays many couples don’t pay childcare until the baby is a year old and they by the time they’re 2 or 3 they’re getting at least a chunk of hours free.

University - yes I benefited from no tuition fees, BUT when back then about 5% of the population when to university; now it’s closer to 50%. I think it’s awful that young people leave uni in debt, but I’m not sure what the answer is... if you’ve going to allow 10 x as many people to get into university then the costs have to be borne somehow

Lastly (and this isn’t a judgement on millennials, just an observation) younger generations generally have expectations of travel, socialising etc which previous ones didn’t. Eg until I was in my 20s and in a professional job I’d been abroad only once on a school exchange. Going out for the evening was quite a big deal. My own children had gone to Various places in Europe by the time they were 12, and now they’re in their 20s they’ve traveled quite extensively.

So bottom line is- the millennials undoubtedly have it worse with housing but each generation has its own challenges so it’s rather pointless to try to play competitive hardship

It is of course correct that interest rates were sky high in the late 80s, early 90s. But look at it this way. In 1996, the average house price was something like £60k. I would guess the average wage was around £18 k per year. Fast forward to now. Average house price something like £240k and average wage around 23k.
People on normal incomes can’t even afford to buy a house. I don’t blame them for being a bit disheartened.

I worked for £1 an hour in the late 1980s so getting my own place was impossible as there was no way I could save up a deposit. It wasn't until the mid 90s, when I'd been working for almost 10 years, that my wage was sufficient to do this. I then got hit by negative equity and lost £10k - almost half the price of my flat. It wasn't all win, win, win.

However, it was more common to stay at home then allowing you to save once your wage got to a decent level. Rents today make saving impossible and that's compounding the problem.

That and programmes like Homes Under The Hammer which show you how to screw renters/buyers by getting them to pay as much as possible while you fork out as little as possible.

There were different challenges but it was on the whole easier.

E.g. I have friends who could afford the mortgage repayments even on a 100% mortgage (because it would be lower than their rent!) but because their rent is so high they can't get a deposit.

Regarding university: you are completely discounting degree escalation. You are acting as if going to university is a frivolous luxury today rather than a necessity for many jobs . If you want any sort of professional office career, you have to have at least a BA. Unless you work as a tradesman (plumber etc), you won’t even get an interview for a PA job without a degree, 3 unpaid internships, and office experience. In your generation, you could have a fairly nice career on A-Levels. Also, university was free! So young people are starting out £30k behind.

With your housing point- as previous posters mentioned, the double digit interest rates were only for 3 years at most.

Salaries have stagnated. I’m real terms they are lower today than they were in 2007. Housing prices have continued through the roof.

A single mum today, earning £27,000 could barely afford rent in many cities in Britain with childcare etc factored in. Let alone qualify for a mortgage. The minimum wage has not caught up with inflation, so young people are earning about 65% of what one would earn in 1987 in terms of buying power.

I don’t think you personally are responsible, but I think young people today are right to be frustrated with baby boomers in general. Your attitude of ‘we had it worse’ is just factually wrong. You lived during the largest period of stable growth in British history. Be grateful.

This whole ‘lazy millennial’ trope is just exhausting.

Yes every generation has its difficulties but YABVU to suggest that housing was as difficult then as it is now. As many pp have pointed out the average price of a house then was about 3x the average wage. Now it's closer to 10x with limited social housing and high renting costs.

There’s always challenges whatever generation you were. my dad lost his house in the big recession of the 80s when interest rates were going crazy but even so it was easier then than it is now.
Even back in the mid 90s there was more housing stock than now. I remember my sister having an argument with my mum at 17 walking out and being in a Council flat by the end of the week. That doesn’t happen now. My neice left home because her Mum shacked up with a violent man and had to come and sleep on my sofa for 6 months until they broke up because the council wouldnt even put her on the list. The amount renters have to pay in agency fees and deposits let alone rents these days is much more as well than I paid 20 years ago. It’s much harder to leave the family home at all let alone buy a house.

The whole degree escalation is a bad joke which helps nobody. I’ve taught young people in recent years who’ve got into university and really shouldn’t- they don’t have the skills or intellectual capacity - and the jobs they go on to don’t require graduate skills. It’s a real mess

Babbitywabbit
I agree.
Some of what's coming through into teaching is shocking. Zero independence, an expectation that staff will run around after them etc. It's like dealing witu another 6th former at times.
I've interviewed trainee teacher applicants who can't speak in standard english or manage basic punctuation in their applicatoon and yes ny fat fingers mn phone typing makes this a pot, kettle, black moment but that doesn't count

Some students we get are fabulous. Others it really is like having another 6th former but 22, less mature and with less subject knowledge.

Middle class MNers probably did have it easier. As very few went to uni in my time, those that did were mostly the sons and daughters or doctors or solicitors who followed in Dad's footsteps. So these might have got onto the housing ladder. The rest took much longer (a bit like now).

Fortunately DH (also no degree which seriously affected the senior roles eventually available to him) got into management and then we could afford a house in our 30s.

I didn't really have an expectation to own a house. My Dps never owned one and DPs parents didn't. That is the biggest difference imv, expectations are higher. Not that that's a bad thing.

my mortgage was £40,000 and the interest rate 15%

And if you were saving for a deposit what rate did you get? If you were renting how much of your income was taken up stopping you saving?

I live in a nice area of zone 3/4. On my street live a lovely couple in their 60s. She is a part time nurse, he is a retired manual worker. They bought 2 small terraced houses, knocked them together and created a beautiful big home in the 1980s.

We live in a mid terrace a few doors down. 2 up, 2 down. Rented at over £2k a month. Valued at close to £800k. On salaries far above the UK average we couldn’t afford to buy this house, let alone 2 to create a perfect family home.

I don’t think it’s the fault of the baby boomers, but it’s not a case that people today just can’t be bothered to save.

Well it was easier. I bought in London back then no way would I be able to do it now. Prices are astronomical, wages don't compare. I mean you'd have to be life-blind not to know that. DD1 and her partner are buying in the Midlands, they'd love to stay in London but they can't afford it. Is there some kind of point to prove re who had it easier? If so, why? What's the gain?

I think the point to remember is that no individual from any generation actually had control over the situation they were in so todays housing problems are no more your fault than they are mine, we are all just trying to do our best to face the challenges that life throws at us. Blame lies entirely with governments.

I do think previous generations did have it easier than current ones. But harder in other ways. It's hard to explain, isn't it?

Regarding university: you are completely discounting degree escalation. You are acting as if going to university is a frivolous luxury today rather than a necessity for many jobs

Agree that the massive expansion of university education was a huge mistake. Means that young people who in previous generations would not have been considered academic enough for university have to be saddled with £50k of debt to get jobs that wouldn't have required a degree, eg clerical work, recruitment, sales, estate agents - all become "graduate" jobs.

Free university education for 5-10%of the population worked as it is probably only 5-10% of jobs that genuinely require a degree when it comes down to it, so supply and demand works. With 50%of young people doing a degree, all that's happened is that supply of graduates has massively increased without a genuine corresponding supply of graduate jobs.

And that's not even taking into account the globalised nature of graduate jobs, where you're now competing against graduates all over the world for professional jobs.

The vast majority of people in UK society are going backwards through no fault of their own.

When you are growing up, and pretty much everyone around you is a homeowner, and saying ‘one day when you buy a house,’ it becomes a normal expectation that you too will one day own a house

My parents, In-Laws, all my Aunties and Uncles, friends of family (late 50’s - mid 70’s), and all my friends parents own properties. And when I say ‘own’, I mean ‘own’ - their mortgages have been paid off, and for quite some time too. Two of them own large flats in city centres, whilst the rest own houses with large gardens, conservatories, attics and extensions. Two of them own two or three properties each which they ‘rent’ to their children, as there is no way they can get on the ladder, and their parents were sick and tired of seeing them bust their arses in order to live in tiny, shitty rented flats and having to put thoughts of having children on the backburner.

Only one of the above has a Degree-Level qualification from a college, about three have A Levels, but the vast majority only have GCSE level qualifications. They however all acquired mortgages in their early twenties, and didn’t have to produce the same kind of ridiculous evidence of everything that you have to now in order to get one.

On the other hand, My DH and I have Postgraduate level qualifications, and all of our friends either have the same, or at least an Undergraduate Degree (with the exception of 1 who only has A Levels). Only two of us have mortgages (flats with no gardens or lifts), acquired these in our late twenties, and wouldn’t have been able to have done so without incredibly generous donations from family.

Of our family members who are a similar age to my DH and I, roughly half have Degrees, the rest have GCSE’s or Diplomas - none have a mortgage.

I am a huge believer in education, but we have been pedalled the idea, (almost brainwashed), that education will be our ticket to everything we need, want and more. That education will allow us to progress and enable us to be even better off than our parents. What a fucking joke! If this was the case, all of my friends and family with Degrees should surely own houses, and these should be larger and better than those of our parents? We certainly don’t, and family of same age with only GCSE’s/Diploma’s are in the same position. We were ‘told’ by the system that people without Degrees would be ‘left behind,’ but we would be landed some kind of golden ticket - no, we’re all in the same fucking sinking boat.

It really doubly hurts for people like my family and I, as my grandparents moved into brand new council houses on new estates, and were pedalled the idea of everything being rosy, and that they can live somewhere nice, and with gardens too. They were so proud of their houses and took great care of them, and encouraged their children to obtain a better education than they had, and that they would then be able to own a house ‘nicer than Mum & Dad’s. That certainly happened for my parents, and my friends’ parents who had grown up in council houses. The ‘grandchildren’ who grew up in privately owned houses and have the highest levels of education in the family get the worst end of the deal. We are truly going backwards.

I bought in 1985 for £21,500 . DH and I had an income of £8000 between us. My payments were £356 per month.

I worked three jobs to get the deposit, had no carpets or heating.

A few years later I bought a house for £60,000 interest rates went up, may not have been at 16 % for very long but they weren’t much less. Mortgage payment was £760, was made homeless.

Deposits are hard to get now and they were then, there were only high street lenders and strict income multiples.

Most people lived with parents IME, where as today many rent and start families (and buy mobile phones) which makes it harder.

The unions had destroyed employment opportunities and there were no jobs.

Many jobs demand longer hours. I am in my 30s and won’t be able to access my teacher’s pension until at least 68. Like many of my colleagues I can’t begin to imagine working 60 plus hours a week. I don’t teaching has ever been easy.

I think it probably depends on where you live. When I bought my first home 20 years ago, it cost about 4 times my public sector salary. To buy the same house now would cost 12 to 15 times the current salary for that role. I live in Cambridge where house prices are insane, and there is no doubt that getting on the housing ladder in the city is virtually impossible unless you have exceptionally wealthy parents or earn mega bucks (over £80k?). Cheapest one bed flats in grotty conditions and in horrible parts of town are on rightmove.co.uk for around £225 - £250k.

... but like many jobs the number of hours worked is increasing.

"My OP was merely suggesting that the older generation is not wholly to blame for the current situation"

...No it doesn't. It also talks about the figures for housing and pensions in such a way that makes it clear you were trying to say that housing was not necessarily more affordable then that it is now and that the younger generation will not necessarily work longer than yours before retiring on average. Both factually incorrect as many PP have shown. You then asked for each generation to show understanding of the difficulties faced by other generations, which is pretty hypocritical! Perhaps consider that the reason people are focused on the difficulties faced by the current and future generations in terms of housing in particular is that things can still be done to improve the situation, but as it stands the government policies are making it worse and worse?

Dh earned 20k in 1990 and bought a flat in south london for 55k, 5k deposit and 50k mortgage. So 2.5 x his salary.

It sold last year for 380k.

At 2.5 salary you would need to be earning 140k per year to buy it now.

When he bought it there were 6, 1bed flats in the block and each had 1 single person in.

Fifteen years ago, when I met Dh
The flats had 2 people each living in them-a couple who shared bedroom and used the living room as a living room.

Now all 6 flats have 4 people living in each. 2 couples, 1 couple share the bedroom, the other couple share the living room as a bedroom and there is no living room anymore.

Also to the previous posters mentioning living at home - the proportion of adults living at home is actually at record high, so it's not because more people are privately renting at all