- to be fed-up of people thinking that my generation had it easy regarding housing?

[PUER125]

I often read comments on Mumsnet, saying that housing was affordable in a way that it isn't now.
If we take todays mortgage of £200,000 at 3% interest, a repayment mortgage would cost £11,376 per year. This equates to 42% of the average UK wage of £27,000.
In 1990, having left my husband whilst pregnant with my second child, and buying him out of the marital home, my mortgage was £40,000 and the interest rate 15%. Repayments were £6144 per year and the average wage was £13,760. This equated to 44.65% in mortgage costs.
And whilst I am having a rant, I am also fed-up of young people complaining that they will have to work until they are 67 before they can claim their pension.
With the majority of young people going to university, they don't enter the work force until they're 21, giving them a working life of 46 years.
My generation left school at 16/18, and we too shall work until we are 67. A work life of 49 years.
Earlier generations started work at 14/15 and retired at 65, a working life of 50 years, many of them worked in manual labour.
Each generation has their own difficulties and hardships. I shouldn't like to be starting out now; nor should I have liked to belong to an older generation.
Whilst being a single-parent, working full-time, was not easy, I coped; just as countless women before and after me have.
Can we please have a little more understanding of generations other than our own, instead of the resentment so often found on these pages?

HOUSING IS IN CRISES.
Yabu

The issue is that it benefits our political masters to set generations against each other, particularly in relation to housing. Problems started when Thatcher brought in right to buy. Local authorities got a third of the price paid, and they had to pay for the discount. They could not afford to replace what was sold. Low cost social housing disappeared, this was often a stepping stone for people into their own home. It was for my parents. The Tory government removed rent caps in 1988; private landlords could then charge what they wanted. The government gave tax breaks to landlords, housing benefit was paid directly to landlords, they could charge what they wanted. Higher rents=people unable to get on to the housing ladder= more people needing to privately rent. Basic law of supply and demand.And now low wages and high rents are subsidised by all of us via housing benefit and tax credit. So I get really pissed off with those people who moan about my generation ‘causing’ the current housing crisis. I had no more responsibility for this than my cat, and I worked 3 jobs at one point to pay my mortgage. And yes, I do have a valuable house, but when I move the next house will also be expensive, I won’t be buying it at 1986 prices. The only way that I will benefit from my house is if I sell it off and live in a caravan. Politics and greed is the reason that people, old and young, can not afford a deposit and a mortgage. And today’s government is playing one generation of against another to disguise their culpability.

So... lets say you had a 10% deposit, so your house was worth £44,000

Your mortgage was 2.9 times the average wage at that time
Your deposit was 30% of average income
Your house was around 3 times average income.

Now the average house price is £223,285, according to Halifax
The median gross annual income for earning adults is £22,044
A 10% deposit is rarely accepted, but let's be generous and assume it is this time. That is still more than the total annual average income
The mortgage is more than NINE TIMES average income
And most of those lucky uni grad kids are saddled with uni debt. And interest rates are only set to rise

See why all the whingeing?

OP so in your day average wage was £13K and your house £40K roughly speaking.

Now average wage £27K (just over double what your average wage was) but the same house was valued at £175K three years ago so maybe it's £180K now.

Can you really not see the flaw in your argument, interest rate aside? Lenders won't lend on a £27K wage for a £180K house, it's 7x the salary. You'd need an enormous deposit and even then you'd have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage.

This is why ordinary people struggle to get a family house in an ordinarily decent area. In the 70s and 80s, workers such as cleaners and delivery drivers could afford (tiny) 3 bed semi houses that are now £250K plus in my area. Yes the interest rates aren't as high but that's for the people who have got past the deposit and wage multiples calculations to get one.

I think the key is, as the OP said, "Each generation has their own difficulties and hardships."

It is just as frustrating to those of us who are older but sympathise with the difficulties, and are often helping our children, to be blamed for all the ills of the modern world as it is for younger people being told they could buy a mansion if the gave up coffee and mobile phones. We are all just doing our best

This topic is very suitable, so near to Groundhog Day! It's not simply a case of house prices v incomes, it's the whole package of expectations. We bought our first house, a new build, for £3,250 in 1970, OH refused to stretch us too far by paying another £150 for central heating, We struggled to pay for it and that was on two teaching salaries, we had a load of second hand furniture, we rented the fridge and washing machine, and we rarely went out, going round to friends's houses instead. At one point the mortgage rate touched 16%. When we got to the top of the waiting list to have a phone installed we were thrilled. I do acknowledge that we were probably the luckiest generation, a range of education opportunities, paid University and a reasonable range of jobs available but to dismiss us, as some do, and blame us for the current situation in which people find themselves is unjust, anyone constantly buying a £3'50 coffee and then buying a sandwich for lunch etc gets no sympathy from me.

People need to remember that generations are usually linked in families. So if baby boomers do very well financially from rises in house prices, it will generally help their children through either loans and financial help whilst they are alive, or inheritance when they die (assuming parents dont blow it all or have to spend it on care home fees). Generations dont exist in isolation

I’ve just checked on Zoopla and the house I grew up in in Barnet is now worth £590,000. My parents also bought a holiday home, now worth £290,000. They had no help from family, and were able to buy within five years of arriving in this country with nothing. My mum worked 20 hours a week as an auxiliary nurse and my dad had a clerical job in local government. Mum gave up work at 50, Dad at 60. Try doing that today with those jobs.

I do agree but alot of people join the workforce before 21 as well as/before going to university. I've worked and paid tax since 16 years old x

Re your point on graduates entering the job market at 21/22 - utter bullshit.

I worked a 35 hour week whilst in my second and third year (health related degree which was popular with mature students meant that lectures and seminars were crammed into 2.5 days a week).

So I started working immediately after college, had a gap year (working in the NHS), started a health related degree and carried on working for the NHS.

Oh! And voluntary work in the NHS from 14. And a Saturday job at 16.

How dare you come on here and whinge about people being concerned about retirement ages. I am under no illusions: I shall probably expire at my desk. But quit the whole “we had it worse” because everyone is different. And I’m terms of generational differences, you may have had it worse, you may not.

Talk about hypocritical - your OP simply serves to demonstrate that you are no better than the poor souls you’re complaining about

Truthfully, I often feel my generation whines too much.

The generation immediately after us who paid full tuition fees as opposed to some tuition fees - that's the generation that got shafted. We had to work hard, but we got the last of the graduate jobs.

I have limited sympathy for my peers - I managed to buy by myself on one wage, no inheritance/wealthy family - but I have every sympathy for the generation that followed us.

The current state pension age for the generation* you're bemoaning is 68, not 67, and is likely to increase by at least a year every decade. So at least 70-71.

*I'm fairly certain that those from generation z are being confused with millenials, unless you're begrudging those in their mid-twenties to early thirties having a desire to be on the property ladder.

Your maths is way off, OP. YABU.

How much is your house worth now, OP?

Come on.... Tell us..

I bought my first flat in 1987 for £17,000. A one bedroom flat in Edinburgh.
We bought with a 100% mortgage, so no deposit required.
Between us, our take home pay was £140 a week and the mortgage was £100 a month.
That flat most recently sold 5 years ago, for £175000, more than 10 times what we paid for it.
I was 18, exP was 20 when we bought...no way would we have got that mortgage today!Not a single bank would have given us any kind of a mortgage, especially with no deposit.

Yabu.
Those high double digit mortgage interest rates only lasted for about 4 years. Once they hit their peak of 14.75% in Sept 1992, then went straight back down to 8% again. In fact the 8% was even better than the previous interest rate which was around 10%. Plus, at the time, if you were a buyer then you could snap up a repossession for a fraction of its worth. I remember a 4 bed house selling for £40K, it would be worth over £350k now.

Boomers had the choice of houses. 400,000 houses were built in 1968 alone and half of those were just for social housing. Then came the right to buy. Council tenants buying their rented property for up to 50% off the market value, with the guarantee of a 100% mortgage (this guarantee was part of the Tory policy on right to buy)
Yeah, boomers had it really hard.

I'm not a boomer or a millennial.

Some figures for you:
I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Have baby boomers stolen the family silver? - www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38558116

You definitely had it easier than millenials.

You must be bloody joking.

My parents had free university tuition and maintenance grants. My dad lived very frugally and actually saved enough during his degree to help his parents buy a car!

They bought a house on one income which upon sale 10 years ago was worth half a million quid.

They could retire at 60 but my dad used his connecfions to keep doing lucrative consultancy work for his old firm.

They are now split up and live mortgage free in properties worth around £300k and £400k respectively.

There is no way on earth a normal 20yo today has those sorts of prospects.

My parents bought their house in 1960 for something ridiculous like £3500, which was what the market was like back then. It was not easily affordable and my grandmother lent them the deposit. Even so, I know my dad used to get a bit wound up towards mortgage day. Both my parents worked in professional jobs. The mortgage did not get paid off easily or quickly.

It wasn't unusual for my generation to c9ntinue living at home until we got married/cohabited. You think everyone was having a great time wild and free in sixties, but for a lot of people it just wasn't like that. Many of stayed living at home until mid to late 20s, and then moved into flatshares or houseshares. There was no great expectation that we'd each buy our own home, renting and sharing was fine. Until Thatcher, of course.

I got some support at Uni and DH and I could get on the housing ladder without too much pain, we got the tail end of the pension deals, we were the last generation to have an OK settlement. I feel very sorry for those generations that came after mine. All generations have challenges but some are luckier than others, my grandparents had ww2 to deal with, I do feel that baby boomers just got lucky but that isn't their fault it's just how life goes.

Nobody is personally blaming you OP, so there's not really any need for the 'what about me' tale. I'm sick of trying to garner support and encourage those who aren't directly affected by this crises, only to be told in winging and they had it worse.

Right now, the housing market is shitty and the actions required to make it better are not really happening.

People are angry and we have the right to express that. In fact, we need to express it for things to change. If you have an idea to improve things on a national scale (beyond just telling us to shut up about our substandard housing and stagnant wages) I'd be very happy to hear it.

By all means, enjoy what you worked all those years for, but be respectful of the fact there's many whose lives are currently very different.

YABVU. If you’re gonna post bullshit, OP, at least try and get your maths right.

My generation left school at 16/18

And this? More bullshit. You chose not to go to university, but many in your generation did go. Uni’s have been around hundreds of years, in case you weren’t aware.

YABU OP. I am 51 and definitely think our generation had it a lot easier than the current young people do.

I bought my first house with a boyfriend at the age of 23. I was at uni doing a Masters degree, he was working in a manual.job. we had saved up.a deposit of £5k and the house coat £60k.

That same house (2 up 2 down) is now worth around £400k. A student and manual worker would never afford to buy it.

Also, although interest rates were higher that period didn't actually last very long.

I had no university tuition fees to pay back so came out of uni debt free.

My dc, aged 19 and 21, are in a very different situation. Ds1 has worked since leaving school at 18. He currently earns £23k. The cheapest, crappiest studio flat where we are is £200k. He has no chance of owning his own place.

Ds2 is at uni. He will come out with a debt of approximately £50k. His earning potential will hopefully be higher but still won't be enough to buy anywhere near where we live.

OP

I'm not a lot younger than you. I think too many people talk about the 15% interest rates without noting that these were only for a pretty short period of time before reducing. Horrible at the time, yes, but so is the cost of a major repair or period of unemployment. I guess you also had MIRAS?

For what its worth I'd rather have lower prices and higher interest rates as a young person as its easier to put down a deposit and any overpayments really knock down capital. A number of my friends had paid off their mortgages within ten years - nowadays with the same jobs they would have struggled to buy in the first place.