Is this illegal exclusion?

[ClaryFray]

I need some advice, my son is currently being flexible schooled due to his SEN needs. He currently has no EHCP or diagnosis, both due end of the month. He's currently being taught in a small group of 8 pupils and 2 TA's.

There was an incident on Monday where he hit a teacher who prevented him from leaving the room (wrong I agree) however, he'd got himself so worked up he was asking for me. And the Senco refused to call me, later reasoning that he was misbehaving so she didn't want to reward him with what he wanted (ie me). He is very frustrated at school, he can't do the work, we've had issues of the work not being differentiated as per the EP report. And he feels stupid. Has school aniexty around the place, and has a mental and emotional age of around 5 when he is 8. (Think crawling round the floor, running around school, and making baby noises)

I was called in Monday after this incident and agreed to flexi school him. I was upset at the time at the end of my rope, and confused about where to go next. The senco kept talking about exclusion saying, we should exclude him for this incident but won't. Do you want to flexischool him? I was given no thinking time, no cool off period. And the contract was ready for me to sign in the meeting. So between hearing about it and signing paperwork took 30 minutes. I wish I'd been more proactive and asked for time to think but I was scared he'd be expelled and I'm still in probation at work so it's the last thing I wanted.

The senco also keeps mentioning special schools, despite my desire to keep him in mainstream. His EHCP should be agreed the end of the month and they don't want to be the named school. To me it seems obvious they wanted him gone.

Today I arrived to collect him at 1:30pm as per arrangement, to find him in a melt down state. Saying he didn’t want to come home. The reason transpired that they were doing a fun activity. Which he had seen the other children start, yet he was being sent home. This caused him to run off around he school, and get very upset.

I’m at the end end of my teacher but I can’t afford to homeschool completely, I'd lose my job, because I can’t afford childcare.

My questions are:

Is this illegal exclusion?
And AIBU to expect either the activity to be postponed until he had gone home? Or him to be removed to another room so he doesn't witness the fun he's missing out on?

No one has asked them to but if the child had 1-1 support from a ta they could be in the room getting instruction from the teacher!

OP
That's not ideal if they are without a teacher. Even the HLTA really should be working with direction from the class teacher.
Are the other students inthe same year or is it a generic support group?
Is it for all lessons?

Certainly by secondary I've found getting myself extra training actually was more beneficial than having a TA out of class with a child in terms of enhancing pupil progress (but then that's my own personal feelings about how often lower ability or SEND students in some schools get significantly less teacher time when what they really need more).

Unless the review is a review to look at reintegration then it sounds like school could be on dodgy ground. Part time timetables have worked well for some students. We have used them to help pupils manage thr days, as a bridge as part of getting students actually into school.

blue
Not all spending will be obvious though. We use some of our SEND budget to overstaff key departments which means our LA and SEND pupils can have preferential staffing (classes of 8-18). We also use it to cover mental health support becausr our pupils can't access CAMHS.
I mean we could take the £10,000 we use to employ a mental health worker who supports 60 pupils and enables a number of pupils to actually attend and spend it on 2 pupils having their perfect set up.

We could take however much it costs for the extra hours in maths/english/science and spend it on 5 SEND pupils having their ideal provision or we can do this and manage to give 18 pupils in every year additional teacher input, better class sizes etc.

They are the trade offs. Sometimes schools have to say x y z isn't doable. At what point do we say '1 child gets prioritised over another SEND approach which supports 20, 30, 60 pupils'?

If a child is unable to attend school full time due to their difficulties then they should take priority imo. Or alternatively top up funding should be applied for.

And it's not perfection the op is after. She's after her child being able to access a full time education as is his right.

But then we come back to the issue of funding. If there is no money for a 1-1 they cannot hire someone. It really is that simple.

I know that you are talking from experience but that is just your experience. When you work in schools you see just how hard it is to meet every child's need without the money to hire more staff.

Schools really are doing the very best they can. It's tough.

I know a teacher who currently has herself, two 1-1 TAs (for children diagnosed with autism) and two class TAs. So there are 5 adults in the room.

There is one other child with diagnosed SEN and two others with diagnosed dyslexia. There are two other children with no diagnosis but behavioural difficulties, often refusing to work, disrupting the class or leaving the room. There is a third child with emotional difficulties who is can be extremely defiant and disruptive.

Then, out of the rest of the class, you have the lower ability group, middle and top (for want of a better description).

Who should the staff support? At least one obviously has to leave the room if a child walks out or needs a calming down time. The lower ability need interventions to help them keep up with the teaching. The higher ability need to be challenged.

If everyone who needed it could have a 1-1 that would be great. But it just isn't realistic.

I'll say it again. If there is no money the school can apply for top up funding.
If you think that the Sen budget is only for children with diagnosed conditions I doubt you know as much about this issue as you think you do.

Your last point is exactly the point I'm making though. Children with send in this country having the appropriate support to access their education is a pipe dream. This would not be acceptable for any other group of children.
I've read the link Barbie posted about some schools having to close early to save money and it's a disgrace. If it became as routine and widespread as it is for children with send though people would be out on the streets.

I'll say it again. If there is no money the school can apply for top up funding.

And if the application is unsuccessful?

Children with send in this country having the appropriate support to access their education is a pipe dream. This would not be acceptable for any other group of children.

ALL of the children are affected by this. The lack of funding for SEN has a detrimental affect on the whole class. Why the government can't see this I don't know.

@tillytrotter1

Would this be the assaulted teacher? No teacher should have to tolerate this behaviour just because parents want an SEN child in a mainstream school, they want everything their way and sod everyone else. Some children need special school not only for their benefit but also for the benefit of the majority.

Let me make this clear. My son isn't diagnosed. So even if I wanted to put him into special school I can't. Until he is. There is nothing I can do. And the hitting was my son tried to run away, the teacher blocked his path and he struck out. He didn't just walk up and punch her in the face! So, tell me if I can't get him into a specialist provision because he isn't diagnosed yet, and I can't (according to you) leave him in a mainstream, what can I do?

Short of pulling him out to home educate, losing the only source of info and reports the LA take seriously. Putting my family lower into the poverty line because I can't afford 140 a week child care. Because if you have a solution I'm all fucking ears!

Clary does the reduced timetable work for him at the moment? And is it manageable for you?

Those are the only things that you need to worry about for now. It's a long and horrible process to have to go through because it can seem like no-one wants to help. The limbo that you are in at the moment is the worst time. Hopefully, he will get a diagnosis and an EHCP soon but there is sadly no guarantee.

What triggered this behaviour change?

The issue is being side tracked here by arguments about funding. A boy has SEN, diagnosis or not, and needs provision. Provision must be made, ultimately by the LA. The school may or may not be the provider of that provision, ultimately, but the responsibility lays with the Local Authority, from start to finish.

Things they could do regardless of worrying about which line of the budget it will come from:

-Top-up funding for the school to teach ClaryFray's child in a safe place within the school while he is assessed.
-Top-up funding for a 1:1 during assessment.

• Funded emergency Ed Psych assessment.
• (if available in that area) outreach service from special school.
• referral for assessment place at a special school (this can be done without an EHCP being in place.

"Let me make this clear. My son isn't diagnosed. So even if I wanted to put him into special school I can't. Until he is."

ClaryFray whatever happens do not let anyone tell you that lie. Half of the kids in special schools have no diagnosis. My DD1 is 12, has been in Special School since reception, and all I can say is "her MRI showed widespread, subtle, cortical dysplasia, and she has moderate learning difficulties". Then whenever I go to a different specialist, they say "oh I'm not sure I'd call it that, I'd probably call it , then the next says "hmmm....I think of it more as ". Now I just sigh and say "ok, but are you any further forward in deciding why DD1 has these issues? "Oh! None at all!"

If you wait until everyone is completely sure of everything, you'll wait a very long time. Deal with your lovely boy as he is. Be tough.

Yes, he hurt someone. No, he shouldn't have done. That teacher does deserve to be protected. BUT the way to do that is not to throw your DS under a bus. It's to get him the provision he needs to learn and feel safe.

The funding discussion came up because of assertions that the school isn't doing anything or should have resources to deal with x y z and same for the idea that mainstream should be able to cater for most things.
People were just pointing out that it's not black and white and that whilst there is room for improvement it doesn't mean school aren't doing anything. They could have quite reasonably gone for a fixed term exclusion. Students I've taught have bern out for 5 days for violence to another student.

There needs to br a discussion about how to move forward on what will probably be a long pathway, but that is perhaps better done whilst being aware of the big picture.

When you work in schools you see just how hard it is to meet every child's need without the money to hire more staff.

While this is absolutely right, it is not appropriate to try to solve the problem by using a back-door route to exclusion. That isn't meeting every child's needs.

Every child has the right to a full time education.

It is never OK to declare one child too expensive and maintain the quality of the education delivered to his classmates by forcing him to remain at home.

We also need to remember that employing more staff is not necessarily what is required to solve this problem. There may be reasonable adjustments to the school environment or routines that could make the world of difference to this little boy at very little cost.

OP, you need to ensure that the school has sought advice from your area's specialist teaching services. They can offer advice from specialists in autism, behaviour support, learning support, educational psychology, etc. They will probably have to pay for these services now but that is not an acceptable reason not to use them. Your son can also be referred to an occupational therapist who can offer advice on how to meet his needs better in school.

Whether these avenues have all been explored or not, you need to request that a multi-agency or team-around-the-child meeting is arranged ASAP. You should be invited to attend and contribute.

Please do look at the specialist schools with an open mind. It may be that your son's needs could be managed perfectly well in mainstream with better advice and support in place. It may be that he needs to spend a short period in a specialist school to work out how he should be supported and then he can return to mainstream with a well designed support package or it may be that a specialist school is exactly what he needs and he will end up happy and thriving in the right one.

If you are not happy to continue with the part-time timetable, inform the school of this in writing first thing Monday morning and ask for a meeting to discuss next steps towards ensuring his needs are met in school.

If you use Facebook, you should be able to find lots of SEN and autism support groups full of parents who have been through similar experiences and will be happy to support you.

I'm a senco in a large primary whose budget is still reasonably healthy. However I'm having to deal with the following:

• I've had additional funding for a child whose 1:1 support costs us £19,000 per year. The reason given was that they are not significantly below age expectations. That means I am £9,000 short of funding. The only options we have is to take it from other budgets or exclude. We've chosen to do the former, which means others now have to go without.

• Our local camhs have shut their books for at least 6 months for all than those who are experiencing the most severe and potentially life-threatening mental health conditions. That means that I cannot obtain diagnosis for autism, adhd or other neuro-development conditions.

• The lea are expecting us to fund 1:1 support for at least 2 terms before they will consider an ehcp. That costs us between 15-19,000 depending on whether they need support at break and lunch or not. I get £4,000 per child plus a 'notional' £6,000 for SEN children. You can see the figures do not add up

• The lea send team are being extremely resistant to granting ehcps for children who are working anywhere near age expectations.

• I have no right of appeal for rejected ehcps or additional funding. Only parents do. Most of my parents aren't able to due to lack of English, their own learning needs or simply not having the skills to navigate the appeals process and being able to advocate for their child. I do support them as much as I can, but ultimately they are the ones who have to deal with the lea.

You can talk all you like about what should be happening - I agree entirely. However I don't have any way of fixing the above issues. While I've not been forced to put anyone on a part-time table and we can still just about manage to fund 1:1 support without additional funding/ehcps, there will come a point when we will run out of money. I'm regularly awake at 2am angry about how fucking unjust the whole thing is.

Oh and to add - the lea Sen team now point blank refuse to hold multi-disciplinary team meetings. I've been refused one this week for a child who is having a mental-health crisis so severe they've required police presence and hospital treatment.

@ClaryFray
There is some great and some shocking legally incorrect advice on here.
It IS the school's legal responsibility to provide full time education for your child. It only gets transferred to an LA if they exclude.
Pressurising you into flexi schooling is wrong and an LA WILL support you in challenging that.
Placements for children with challenging behaviour are always difficult but some schools are dreadful, scapegoat the child, provide ineffective support and will do everything to get rid of them. Other schools always go the extra mile, holding the child at the centre and finding creative ways to support them. Sometimes a change of placement works miracles - the child who knows that they are wanted, respected and understood in a classroom can thrive regardless of their SEN.

I do hope that you've found someone to talk to and advocate on your behalf. Do write that letter stating that you were pressurised into agreeing flexi schooling (and copy it to your Education Welfare Service). This has been dumped on you by the school and it's completely wrong.

If they do decide to exclude, ironically sometimes an exclusion benefits a child more as the legislation is written to address the issue of SEN children being excluded too often. Schools have to evidence that they have made 'reasonable adjustments' when excluding and that in itself makes them review how they are supporting a child. An excluded child is entitled to a full time education and most LAs work hard to find a new placement and to work with their SEN department to find the appropriate placement

It is the school that is responsible for educating a child not the parents unless they agree to home educate. Please take some advice - I listed some organisations upthread for you.

Librarybooksandacoconut
While I completely understand your issues, is it really appropriate to dump them on a thread where an OP is trying to deal with a school avoiding their legal responsibilities for her child?

Why not start your own thread - you'd get lots of support.

Rowdywoman - you are completely right and I apologise to the op, it's not fair on her.

It's just incredibly frustrating when you get posters saying that the school needs to being doing xyz and that the law says this, when those of us working on the frontline are trying our absolute hardest to do the best by our children, but are are having to deal with the sort of situations I've described.

Thanks Library It just makes it hard for the OP to come back and find support when there are stressed teachers reacting all over the place.

Op, there's a lot of expertise on here (despite the stress and exhaustion). Do ask if any of us can help with drafting a letter or planning a discussion.

And the SEN board is a place where you will find lots of support:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_educational_needs

Surely he would be more appropriately catered for in a special school

I've been refused one this week for a child who is having a mental-health crisis so severe they've required police presence and hospital treatment.

This is nowhere near as unusual or as shocking as it should be.

The fact remains that forcing a child into a part-time timetable is not an appropriate solution.

OP I really think you should start to take the special school provision more seriously. It’s not a dumping ground and the staff will be trained to deal with Student aggression and more confident with calming techniques.

There is no reason why if he progresses well at a specialist provider he can’t then re enter mainstream in the future.

It’s clear the school have advised they are not in a position to offer the support your son needs and from what you’ve said they are speaking sense. He needs help and support and it will do you good.

This is nowhere near as unusual or as shocking as it should be.
The fact remains that forcing a child into a part-time timetable is not an appropriate solution.
The fact remains it might actually best the best short term solution available at that time.

Before I took on a leadership role in school I used ti find myself eye rolling and being a bit 'they're chatting bollocks' about some decisions. Now, whilst i don't always agree with every decision (and still think some are crap), I think I'm more sympathetic to the challenges than I might otherwise have been.

In an ideal world my school wouldn't be making teaching staff redundant, making all new TA posts fixed term linked only to studnets with allocated hours, and cutting parts of the curriculum whilst recruiting an ever growing pastoral team to pick up the pieces of a run down CAMHS service. But that's the reality we're living in. I don't envy people making those calls.

*MaisyPops8

It's never a solution for schools to behave unethically - and coercing the OP into flexi schooling in a meeting with no notice is shocking - and every senior leader in schools ought to know that.

ps - OP is unlikely to come back to this thread while teachers use it as a place to vent about their understandable pressures.