The Bulger killers: was justice done?

[WannaBeWonderWoman]

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

Can such people/children be rehabilitated? Maybe insome cases (I forget the name of the girl in Scotland who murdered a child years and years ago). I don’t think in this case.

He was given the opportunity but there is something broken in there and I don’t think that he is safe to be out - a real danger to children. The ananomity thing makes him more of a danger I think.

I dont know about what happened to the other boy.

I don’t know what we should have done with them. I do know however that having had a friend who had access to the files that both children had no more of a difficult upbringing than many others. Certainly not enough to remove them from care or even suggest to do so. Thompson was subject to violence from his siblings and Venables had a depressed mother. There was alcoholism in the families. But overall, these were things that were (and are) happening in many, many families all across the uk. That does not mean to say it was right or that both of them did not suffer for it but in the grand scheme of things these were not boys who were horrendously abused. They were old enough to be part of society - watching tv, going to school, exposed to the same normal things in the world as every other child. What went wrong? I have no idea.

As someone who myself comes from a background of an alcoholic mother and grandmother with severe mental illness (both of them) and a dysfunctional young family life I really, really hate it when people try to say that people like me having a background like that makes us less likely to know right from wrong.

Fekko "The other boy", Thompson, has not committed other crimes (and yes, we would know if he had, just as we have with Venables even though he's been living under different names). Mary Bell committed two equally horrific child murders when a child herself; she has also not committed other crimes and is herself now a mother. So rehabilitation is possible.

It hasn't worked with Venables.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "justice". There is the legal definition - and then there are emotional definitions, as seen at the time, through media and social media over 25 years, and on these threads.

Some extreme examples of the latter on here across various threads - some posts saying by that T and V "should kill themselves" or be locked up for life or that anyone who doesn't feel that way is a "bleeding heart"; others wanting to prove how clever/open minded they are, but in fact being patronising or rude on occasion, if that naice liberal surface gets ruffled. Most people are more in the middle luckily, but even so it's clear that the yes's and the no's aren't going to convince one another any time soon!

But mostly I think people just want to understand - and there isn't a good or an easy explanation. Just the convergence of several deeply unfortunate factors. And it was such a sickening thing to happen; it's not surprising people feel strongly about it. It throws up so many difficult questions - when should personal responsibility start; how far does a difficult childhood explain an individual's issues; how much leeway should they be given for that; how much is nature and how much nurture - that doesn't even scratch the surface and you could debate each one for hours!

In terms of justice, it was such an unprecedented case, I think it's natural that hindsight would find flaws with how it was handled. I am much more confused about rehabilitation. V clearly isn't rehabilitated by any definition of the word. T is more difficult. I certainly don't accept that he must be a success because it's never been in the papers that he has reoffended. I do accept that either he has not reoffended so far, or that he has not been caught, or that he is clever enough to fly under the radar. Whether that's true rehabilitation in the sense of being emotionally "normal", is a different question.

I never got a response to my question in the previous thread. Not a goady question: but what would you have done had it been your 10 year old which was the perpetrator? Would you have supported them through the trial and visisted them whilst in detention?

Of course. I think I would look very poorly on any parent who didn’t (although tbf, couldn’t possibly know what I’d do in that situation)

It's a difficult one, Cherry, isn't it? I forget now whether it was Thompson or Venables but what triggered the confession of one of the boys was the mother saying, at the police's urging, that they would love him no matter what he had done.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sex-behind-bars-cocaine-dark-11985925?ICID=FB_mirror_main

Venables such remain incarcerated for the rest of his life he is clearly a risk of causing harm to young children. Had this happened in america they would never been released after 8 years.

Should*

The mirror is so reliable

And the US a benchmark of an excellent judicial system

It was Venables who confessed when his mother (as told to do so by the police) told him she would love him no matter what. That was done in a break in the interview and then they went back into the room and began the interview again and he said he had killed James. Before that point he had been very distressed and moving about the room and climbing onto his mother who kept shouting at him to tell the truth. The detectives had to keep telling his mother not to shout at him. That’s when they had a break and told her to tell him she would always love him.

(In answer to the post above about this point).

I used the mirror as it detailed his history post release of his original crime. The fact of the matter is he poses a high risk to children. What’s it going to take another child murdered for him to be incarcerated for life he is a child killer and a paeophile, he is guilty of these crime and is a danger to the public. He will only escalate further once released.

Can people PLEASE stop writing out specific details of the abuse James suffered? We really don't need to keep seeing it.

Aridane *I think our judicial system is pathetic 3years for obtaining child abuse photos and a manual of how to engage in sexual abuse of a child as young as 2 absolutely appalling. We need longer sentences for paeophiles!

In some ways though I think when talking about this case people do need to read about what happened to James because without those details it’s impossible to understand the depth of feeling relating to this case. Emotions run high because of the brutality of what happened and the age of the murderers. It’s the two things combined which mean this case is as fresh in the public mind as it was all those years ago.

What do you mean cista?

@Cherrycokewinning

Some people keep highlighting what Venables and Thompson did to James, in order to highlight the severity of it... but it gives me chills every time!

There was a poster called TheBrillant on the other main thread who's responses really annoyed me. She kept talking about other victims in this case, and putting the killing to the side, to plug the "poor abused boys" agenda. This not only is disrespectful to James and the horrific way in which he died at the hands of two nasty and dispicable boys, but also his still grieving parents. The only real victim in this, is James, who will never walk this earth again. He will never grow up, go to school, have a relationship or kids, because of them.

Where? I’ve just skimmed back 4 pages and can’t see anything that would prompt your (unreasonable to be fair) request?

I found TheBrilliant's posts insightful and thought provoking. Not saying I necessarily agreed but I'm glad she posted

And of course there is the Trevor McDonald / Denise Fergus interview this evening on ITV to mark the 25th anniversary of James Bulger's death. This will

One of the most chilling things in the interview tapes was shortly after confessing to the murder Venables said (unprompted) “What about his mum, will you tell her I’m sorry?” If that doesn’t prove that he knew what he did was wrong I don’t know what does.

I am not sure what should have happened to them but as a general comment I am disgusted by the light sentencing paedophilies receive in the UK. Anyone who is looking at child abuse images is absolutely vile and deserves locking up for life.

Why did you bother asking op you have zero interest in anyone who thinks any differently from you and your calling people ‘wooly minded liberals’ just makes you seem like a bit of an arsehole.

I don't believe justice was done. Thompson and Venables deserve everything they get .