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Original poster

The Bulger killers: was justice done?

999 replies

WannaBeWonderWoman · 08/02/2018 00:07

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

OP posts:
FellOutOfBed2wice · 10/02/2018 02:54

Upthread someone said “Absolutely this case was driven by the media“ in answer to why the Jamie Campbell case didn’t get anything like as much press attention and I laughed to myself because the fact that James Bulgers murder got so much coverage was entirely a cynical move by The Sun and it’s waining fortunes on Merseyside post Hilsborough and a failing Tory Government who wanted to prove that they were tough on crime and punishment. Anyone who can’t see that the public was cynically used by these two institutions for their own ends is blinkered.

This was a shocking case but there are many shocking murders that happen: light was just shone on this particular one by the puppeteers of a huge newspaper and the government. And the puppets have danced to the tune of the agenda that they set for 25yrs.

JediJim · 10/02/2018 06:41

Well I’m glad I don’t live in Norway then! Had this happened there no charges would have happened! The age here has remained at 10, that has changed since the Bulger case. I’m quite glad it hasn’t...imagine if nothing at all had ever happened.
The police are convinced they knew it was wrong, the lies, the covering it up. Not your normal ten year old boys, if they were this would have happened again. The fact this case was unique says something.

HarveyKietelRabbit · 10/02/2018 07:08

As was said on the JV TV programme, if 10 year olds are to be treated the same as adults in terms of criminal responsibility with the implication that they have the same level of understanding as an adult - why do you have to be 18 to serve on a jury?

Let's put 10 year olds on juries. If they can be treated as adults for committing a crime, they can form a judgement about one too.

Lizzie48 · 10/02/2018 07:31

The cases that have made the headlines over the years have been the ones where children have been abducted, for example Sarah Payne, Holly and Jessica, Lily Dowling, etc. That's because there has been a search for the missing child followed by hopes fading and a tragic end. The media interest is already there.

The media coverage at the time wasn't all kind to the Bulger family either. There were accusations that Denise and her mum were shoplifting and that she'd left James outside the shop.

Michael Howard was shamelessly courting the media when he increased the sentence to 15 years though. Hmm

GnotherGnu · 10/02/2018 07:32

OP, do us the courtesy to admit that when you use the term "lovie" on here you are clearly not using it in the same way as when you use it to address your family. You very obviously intended to be patronising.

lalalalyra · 10/02/2018 07:46

Michael Howard was shamelessly courting the media when he increased the sentence to 15 years though.

He was. Tony Blair was equally guilty of that. They both used the murder to boost their popularity.

ichifanny · 10/02/2018 07:50

This case breaks my heart , I read Denise Fergus’ Book and what that family went through is horrific . The boys families were absolute bastards too , laughing in court and smirking . As much of I was them I’d hunts Thomson and venables down as adults and finish the job myself if I was Jamie’s family I just can’t believe a 10 year old should be jailed for a life term
In an adult prison . There’s adults who don’t even get that punishment . There just isn’t a decent solution at all .

lalalalyra · 10/02/2018 07:51

Well I’m glad I don’t live in Norway then! Had this happened there no charges would have happened!

If it happened in Scotland today then there would be no charges. The age of criminal prosecution is 12.

ManagedTeaCups · 10/02/2018 08:07

I think in some way they would have been relieved in an adult had removed James from them
Yet people did one woman’s dd had hold of james’ Hand but either JV or RT pulled him back away from her claiming they would take him to the police station- she must absolutely torture herself that she should have done more they all must but they wouldn’t have know what horrific acts would follow her failure to intervene.

ManagedTeaCups · 10/02/2018 08:11

The boys families were absolute bastards too , laughing in court and smirking
Yes and their mothers barging james’ Family at out the way physically in the canteen which Denise was warned about as she was expecting. How could they possibly behave like I can’t comprehend it- if my dc has admitted to such a barbaric act I’d be completely ashamed of them and myself as a mother.

HarveyKietelRabbit · 10/02/2018 08:11

Mary Bell was criticised for laughing in court too. Her solicitor had said something funny and she laughed. It didn't mean she found the situation funny. I've been in Crown Courts, they are incredibly tense atmospheres where tiny noises and movements are amplified and you are expected to sit relatively still in silence for hours, there's loads of waiting around and it's often incredibly boring.

Difficult for a lot of adults but much harder for children, particularly when people around you are talking about you and horrific things you have done, often using language you don't understand.

My friend was laughing and shaking as he carried the coffin of his baby who died of SIDS into the Church. He 100% didn't find it funny, he was so grief stricken and in shock that he was unable to cry but somehow the emotions he was repressing came out differently. And he was 17 then, not 10.

People don't always react in ways we understand. That's why families of missing or murdered people/children are often criticised by the public and viewed with suspicion for not acting how people think they should, seeming 'cold' or 'unemotional' or 'too calm' or 'smirking'.

ichifanny · 10/02/2018 08:38

People do behave in strange ways when faced with stress but I can’t imagine laughing and joking in court when my 10 year old is up in the dock for murder . Venables mother also bathed into James uncle in the coffee shop outside the court and made comments that James should have been on reigns and it wouldn’t have happened Hmm

ichifanny · 10/02/2018 08:39

Sorry barged into not bathed

ichifanny · 10/02/2018 08:41

I’ve laughed at a funeral before due to nervous distress , from what I gather Thomson and venables families acted aggressively and intimidating to the bulgers .

ManagedTeaCups · 10/02/2018 08:46

Yes from what I read it wasn’t an isolated incident their families behaved in an arrogant aggressive way on a few occasions during court proceedings.
Defensive mechanism?! Not sure can’t understand why they would behave like the aggrieved party knowing what their dc had done to James’.

lalalalyra · 10/02/2018 08:52

Venables mother also bathed into James uncle in the coffee shop outside the court and made comments that James should have been on reigns and it wouldn’t have happened

That was Robert Thompson's mother. She didn't believe he was guilty.

BakedBeans47 · 10/02/2018 08:57

the fact that James Bulgers murder got so much coverage was entirely a cynical move by The Sun and it’s waining fortunes on Merseyside post Hilsborough and a failing Tory Government who wanted to prove that they were tough on crime and punishment.

This!

SusanBunch · 10/02/2018 09:02

How could they possibly behave like I can’t comprehend it- if my dc has admitted to such a barbaric act I’d be completely ashamed of them and myself as a mother

Well, they were hardly model parents to begin with. Neglect, abuse, alcoholism etc. Presumably they felt angry. People develop a defence mechanism when they go through stressful situations and sometimes they don't have the emotional intelligence to deal with it. Not excusing it in any way, but the behaviour of the families in court is hardly surprising given what is known about the boys' backgrounds.

Even though JV is painted as coming from the better home, I read that Susan Venables, his mum, had been in trouble for neglecting the kids and leaving them alone for hours at a time. Bear in mind that two of his siblings had quite severe special needs. From school reports, it seems JV also had quite severe ADHD and displayed disturbed behaviour in the classroom such as hiding under tables and crawling along the walls. I think his parents were completely ill equipped to parent three children with additional needs.

Seeing them as just pure evil allows people (and society) to avoid responsibility. Instead people should be thinking 'this is what can happen if I neglect and mistreat my children'. Not all will end up doing something like this of course, but it's a particularly toxic combination- a ringleader/bully with no empathy, brought up on a diet of violence, plus an easily led, highly disturbed individual who later in life turns out to have a predilection for abusing young children. Individually, they might not have done what they did, but the combination of the two was fatal.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/02/2018 09:13

ich just shows the Apple does don't fall far from the tree. Nasty discicable family, those boys had no hope with family like that.

Itsnotmesothere · 10/02/2018 09:24

Babyccino you mention they might have been relieved if an adult had removed James from them.
They lied to each person who intervened and said they were taking him to a police station.
The whole case makes for incredibly difficult reading. Apart from the torture and murder, I find it very hard to deal with the fact that so many adults saw and could have saved him. I always hope that I would intervene. James saw hell that day and died alone.

lalalalyra · 10/02/2018 09:26

I always hope that I would intervene.

I think people would be even less likely to intervene now than they were then.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/02/2018 09:26

I heard RT mum used to leave them on their own whist she was at the pub. Where were the parents, whilst these two were playing truant! Tgey should have been keeping a close eye on their children so they don't go out murdering toddlers, so they are rich to talk.

SuperBeagle · 10/02/2018 09:28

If anything, the way V+T's parents behaved after they were charged/during the trial supports the perspectives of people on this thread that they hardly had the ideal upbringing. No parent worth their salt would behave in such a way.

babyccinoo · 10/02/2018 09:29

Wanna

It was 3 boys. Two 6 year olds and a 5 year old. Why don't you educate yourself before your correct me babyccinoo

They were just 2 boys. Silje's mum talks about how she had one of those boys on her lap (when she went to thank the boy's mum for trying to resuscitate Silje) and the mum told her it was her son and another boy who did it.

I'll believe her rather than you, Wanna.

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