The Bulger killers: was justice done?

[WannaBeWonderWoman]

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

Will JV be able to hook with a partner without them being informed about his past?

Fgs must we keep coming back to this competitive name-calling? It doesn’t matter who posted the link - it’s from the bbc so is reputable enough. Equally though bringing up previous threads is bad form.....

TBH the bbc thread makes for interesting reading, because while the ages are different, the circumstances are similar in that a small child was beaten, kicked and left half naked, did they know she would die? Impossible to say, but sixteen years on one of them has apparently been sending death threats to the family of the child they killed. That is surely just as chilling sixteen years on when they will both be adults and well aware of what they’re doing and is indicative of the fact that there was something very wrong in that child’s development, was it abuse? Who knows. It has been reported that JV and RT did come from abusive homes, but the lack of media in the Norwegian case means that we don’t know anything about their home lives growing up, how they were treated by their families before and after,and how it has come about that one of them has subsequently been sending death threats to the family of someone they harmed when they were only six years old.

Yes parents will have said that. But will children that age understand that death is final? That takes a while for them to understand, unless they've lost a close family member.

I can’t believe anyone thinks they should have recieved the death penalty, at 10?

I think it was different with T and V though. There was premeditation and an attempt to make what happened look accidental.

There was premeditation and an attempt to make what happened look accidental.

And also lied when questioned about what happened

T and V also sought out a small child, knowing they wouldn't be able to fight back. I can't remember exactly but I think both had strong resentments towards younger siblings especially RT. He left his little brother beside a canal.

That's very true, loobyloo1234. As I said, 10 years old is very different from 6 developmentally. So it's not a good comparison imo, though both cases are equally tragic for the families of course.

WRT Venables and rehabilitation, we already know that his current sentence is based on sentencing guidelines for the crime he committed. But bearing in mind that his previous crime was murder, how can we actually say that being sentenced for a different crime means he hasn’t been rehabilitated as a murderer?

That’s not meant to make light of jb’s death, but while there is suggestion that murderers can be rehabilitated and that murderers released from prison can and do go on to lead lives in the community, there is also suggestion that paedophiles cannot be rehabilitated and that they will always go on to re-offend hence why so many end up on the register for life.

JV is on life licence because of his previous crimes. It’s entirely possible that he wasn’t rehabilitated, but isn’t it also possible that he was always going to end up a sex offender regardless of whether he’d committed murder as a child?

Isn’t this why we need to look at the crimes separately rather than stating that because he had committed a previous crime and because of its public nature, he should return to jail permanently? If we knew who his associates were we wouldn’t be looking at them any more leniently because they weren’t already murderers, we’d be saying they were all the lowest of the low and should be locked up for a lot longer than three years.

So while one hopes that the parole board is meticulous in its findings in three years time, isn’t this now just as much about the sentences given to those who download child images and the asking the questions as to why those are so short? Iyswim.

I find your last post threatening Buttery and I've taken a screen shot of it.

If they had been adults, do you think an appropriate sentence for two adult men who committed such a cruel brutal act would have been an 8 year sentence? No of course not.
8 years is not a fitting punishment for the crime- in an adult prison.
So the fact that their sentence was carried out in a setting equal to (although probably better) than their home in terms of housing condition with emotional support and educational encouragement they weren’t getting at home I can see why Denise Bulger feels they’ve been rewarded rather than punished and I’m inclined to agree with her.

Looby/Butterymuffin - And yet the link elendon has posted doesn't quite match up to her summary of it posted (without a link despite her fierce demands that everyone else post a link or be called a liar) last night!

In fact the link says that V didn't call the police himself; he called his probation officer after fearing his anonymity had been busted, and they in turn called the police. Who were then interested in what he was trying to destroy. Now I'm not well versed in the police hierarchy, but isn't a parole officer more of a social worker than a policeman? Or am I wrong?

It was on February 22, 2010, that Venables called his parole officer to report his fear that his identity had been compromised. The officer called the police and, in a panic, Venables took a hammer and a screwdriver to his hard drive. You can imagine how desperate he must have been. The game was nearly up. When she visited him in prison soon after his recall, his parole officer found him "relieved and feeling safe".

So basically, Venables tried to destroy his hard drive because he was going to get caught by the police. He never called them. He was just shitting himself about being caught. He wasn't trying to get help at all and is clearly not fit to be allowed to walk the streets.

I don't know about the death penalty, although I'm not going to criticise those who think the 2 murderers should have faced it, but they certainly shouldn't have ever been released, either of them.

Fabulous post from TemporaryScouserNameChange upthread btw. This Scouser agrees with every word.

Chaos I don't know this for an absolute fact, someone else may do.

But I read in the past that James Bulger was sexually assaulted by at least one of the boys.

I won't go into the details of exactly how, but I can remember one of the detectives at the time sting how the sexual motivation was overlooked at the time because it wasn't needed for a conviction and because of his mothers feelings.

What utter shit Chaos. I put raking and looking at indecent images of children as being as bad as murder. It is participating in the sexual abuse of a minor which is one of the worse crimes possible. So 'oh well at least he hasn't killed someone' is really a shit way to look at it.
Some of the things written on this thread are utterly disgraceful.

FFS!

What is this?

I'm feeling very threatened on this thread now.

Ooh, well spotted Rebecca.

(oops, x post)

It's not possible to rehabilitate venables. The only way to fix that head of his is through methods that have long since been made illegal. Hence why he shouldn't ever be allowed out. But I bet there are still some psychologists out there who think they can fix him. Not possible. He'll always be a disgusting sicko.

So what I'm saying is the two crimes aren't entirely separate. James Bulgers murder was also sexually motivated.

I'm feeling very threatened on this thread now.

Did you or did you not call someone a "lazy shit" and a "fecker" upthread?

Was that because you were feeling "threatened"?