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Original poster

The Bulger killers: was justice done?

999 replies

WannaBeWonderWoman · 08/02/2018 00:07

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

OP posts:
Sleepingbunnies · 09/02/2018 07:32

I agree young I don’t think they should ever have been released.

TabbyMack · 09/02/2018 07:38

*I would have committed suicide first opportunity I got
*
What a fucking stupid, grandstanding statement. And who gives a shit what YOU would do, anyway? This thread isn't about you, in case you haven't noticed.

It's about Thompson & Venables, if you think they should committ suicide, at least have the balls to say that instead of disguising it with irrelevant crap about you.

Lizzie48 · 09/02/2018 07:38

@Fontella thank you for the link, it's fascinating. I'm sure T was acting out his jealousy against his younger brothers in what he did to little James. It isn't unusual for children that age to act out, there are a lot of cases of little children abused by older siblings.

Obviously what T did along with V went way beyond that, but T's parents do bear a great deal of the blame imo.

echt · 09/02/2018 07:55

@echt see my last post. I didn't say I understood the workings of such people's minds, quite the opposite actually!

But you said you didn't know how he could live with himself which presumes you've gone to some kind of imagining of his deeds and the workings of remorse, etc, which is bit like trying to understand the workings of his mind, otherwise how could you come to your conclusion?

They also never went to prison, maybe you should get your facts straight before putting other people down

They were detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure in a place not their home which is sort of like prison. Kind of thing.

berryferry · 09/02/2018 07:57

The amount of contradictions on this thread about whether they had shit childhoods, who the ringleader was, who is the most reformed etc means basically we know fuck all.

All this speculation doesn't help anything, anyway.

We should never have known their names or seen their photos imo. The poster who claimed they "looked evil" proved that.

captainjacksparrow · 09/02/2018 08:06

I don't think they were punished enough. I don't understand why they couldn't have entered the jail system under new identities (in order to protect them), it could have been done quietly and without fuss. They would have been punished for their crime.

Having worked in secure youth accommodation I can state with all honesty that the facilities are just not comparable to prison.

Yes rehabilitate - or at least try, but ensure they face punishment as well. This is all that James mother was asking for and I agree with her.

Petition signed

GrumbleBumble · 09/02/2018 08:07

wanna I didn't say James parents should know. I said made public i.e. the baying mob shouldn't know. Big difference.

ChaosNeverRains · 09/02/2018 08:08

I have said this on the thread already, but for those advocating the suicide of convicted murderers, it might be worth reading up on Harold Shipman and Fred West with regards to how their victims felt about their suicides. It certainly wasn’t glee or happiness in fact they felt that suicide was too easy a way out.

Very easy to sit there in your bubble of isolation and state what you would have done, although if you’ve never murdered a child you can’t possibly know can you? Unless you think you know how it would feel to murder a child in which case you have far bigger issues at play.

And for those stating that no other murder victim has ever been tortured in the same way, really? You’re not familiar with the details of the death of baby P then? Or Ellie ...Southall was it? (Apologies, on phone so can’t look up names atm, or the little girl who was murdered by her Polish stepfather who later died, along with the mother in prison? Or is that different because their tortures happened over a series of months and in some cases under the eye of authority before they were murdered by family members?

Iprefercoffeetotea · 09/02/2018 08:13

In other countries they would not have been tried at all, as 10 is well below the age of criminal responsibility in many countries. So those baying for their blood would have been sorely disappointed.

I wonder what would have happened to them in those jurisdictions.

GrumbleBumble · 09/02/2018 08:15

Sorry the should in the post above was meant to be shouldn't know.

SusanBunch · 09/02/2018 08:15

Agree chaos, there have been so many child-murders which involved torture, usually by a parent or carer, ie an adult who should have loved and protected the child. Daniel Pelka, Victoria Climbie, Ellie Butler, Elsie Scully-Hicks etc. Plus horrific stranger-murders like Sarah Payne and Holly and Jessica. The Bulger murder was horrific but to say that it was unparalleled in its brutality is wrong. That is just feeding the narrative that these two were devil-children who are incapable of reform.

Sleepingbunnies · 09/02/2018 08:17

Yup susan Venables reform is going well I see... Hmm

SusanBunch · 09/02/2018 08:24

Sleeping hardly surprising tbh. This country has a shit rehabilitation record. We have a massively high reoffending rate compared to systems where prisoners are treated like human beings.

That's not really the point though. The point is, should we say about a young child that they are clearly so evil that they should be killed by the state at age 10 or locked up until they die because there is no way that they can ever be reformed?

echt · 09/02/2018 08:26

Having worked in secure youth accommodation I can state with all honesty that the facilities are just not comparable to prison

So what? They were children when they offended, so were punished within the remit of what was allowable.

Sleepingbunnies · 09/02/2018 08:27

Yes I think we should. Our opinions obviously differ but no, I don’t think they should have seen the light of day again.

echt · 09/02/2018 08:29

I don’t think they should have seen the light of day again

Do you mean they should have been killed, or just locked up in dark room forever?

ShatnersWig · 09/02/2018 08:31

Sleeping Actually, Sleeping, you felt that they should have been executed, let's be honest about it.

SusanBunch · 09/02/2018 08:35

Then sleeping why are you and others distinguishing the Norwegian case? They were 4 years younger, but they kicked a girl until she died. She was presumably just as scared as James Bulger was when she was being killed. By your logic, those boys were born bad as well and should have been executed, surely? Because ordinary 6 year olds most certainly do not go round kicking other kids to death or even attempting to do so. So how young do you actually want to go before you say it is wrong to execute a child and there may still be a chance to rehabilitate them? 6? 5? 3?

Sleepingbunnies · 09/02/2018 08:41

I have never distinguished between cases susan

Yes shanters I do feel they should have been executed. I wouldn’t mourn the loss and I doubt others would either.

sophie428 · 09/02/2018 08:42

you started off insulting liberals whilst claiming to want to hear their opinions. This is an excuse to put down and insult people as opposed to actually consider the situation. It's nasty and unnecessary.

ChaosNeverRains · 09/02/2018 08:44

You know, I actually find it quite disturbing that there are posters here who feel the need to A, re-write the way in which JB was killed down to sharing the graphic detail, and B, at the same time advocate for the execution of ten year old children.

I think it’s one thing to be outraged at what you perceive to have been a too short sentence at the time, to feel that the boys should have been treated differently/should have served a longer sentence/should have spent time in an adult institution and so on. It’s a view which divides opinion but there is merrit on both sides of that opinion.

However, when it comes to the re-hashing of details combined with the desire for the death of other children in which you might even offer to participate, I am beginning to wonder whether this is really about moral outrage or whether there are underlying fantacies involving your own part in the deaths of children there somewhere. Because while wanting to see justice be done is normal, wanting to be a participant in the death of a ten year old most certainly is not. And even less so when you’re an adult.

SusanBunch · 09/02/2018 08:44

So Sleeping do you believe that the Norwegian boys were also beyond redemption at 6 and should have been executed?

ShatnersWig · 09/02/2018 08:45

Susan Yes, Sleeping has been quite clear earlier in the thread. A child who kills another child should be executed and something nasty happen to their parents who raised their child to be that evil.

Rebeccaslicker · 09/02/2018 08:47

"Where prisoners are treated like human beings".

How do you think our prisons fail to do this?

How do you balance it with the fact that prison can't be a pleasant place to be??

SusanBunch · 09/02/2018 08:47

Because while wanting to see justice be done is normal, wanting to be a participant in the death of a ten year old most certainly is not. And even less so when you’re an adult

There are posters on this thread advocating that the Bulger killers should have been tortured to death in the same manner as their victim, together with volunteering to be part of that and not seeing it as a problem in the slightest that grown women are prepared to torture young boys to death.