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Original poster

The Bulger killers: was justice done?

999 replies

WannaBeWonderWoman · 08/02/2018 00:07

Following on from previous thread which was filled.

What would have been the correct way to deal with these little boys who subjected a tiny two year old to protracted agony and unimaginable suffering then?

Interested to know what all the bleeding hearts on here believe should have happened? Whether they attended an adult court and were convicted of murder which they confessed to anyway, was this crueller to them than what they put that child through? They were well treated and even when they were serving their 'sentence' they were protected and given all they wanted (more than they would have got if they'd been in their own homes probably) and had all the help and therapy it was possible to give them. Did they suffer? You could actually argue that they benefitted from killing. They have to live with what they've done, yes, but if they did I find it hard to comprehend that Thompson especially (who came across as the leader in the interviews) can.

The Norwegian case which is often compared to this is nowhere similar IMO. The perpetrators were a similar age to their victim. They were 6 which is almost half the age V&T were and they wouldn't have been tried here anyway. Most importantly that crime was not premeditated or drawn out for hours like the many horrors inflicted on James.

He was the only victim here.

OP posts:
WitchesHatRim · 08/02/2018 21:51

Can’t believe 25 years. I’m sure if Ralph or Denise ever wanted to track them down they would have done. All Denise has said is that she wanted them to serve longer in prison.

Ralph has come put and said his identity should be revealed and is now being backed by T and V lawyer.

WitchesHatRim · 08/02/2018 21:52

*out

SusanBunch · 08/02/2018 21:53

Seriously I apologised already. I don't think there is much point stringing it out tbh. For the avoidance of doubt, I did not say that everyone with poor spelling and grammar holds ignorant and offensive views.

LindySprint · 08/02/2018 21:54

My understanding was that Denise Fergus would like answers about how John Venables's supposed rehabilitation went so wrong and that this wasn't noticed. Those are very perceptive questions.

The baying mob is nothing to do with her or her husband. She talks of punishment, yes. But why other people seek to appropriate her particular, unique emotions I'll never fathom.

Chocolate50 · 08/02/2018 21:56

There was a similar case at about the same time as the bulger case in Norway (?). The community responded in a very different way than in the UK. There was a feeling of how could WE have let this happen? We care about our children and so where did we go wrong?
The children involved in that case were not put on trial or labelled 'evil', the community felt that the responsibility was everyone's - the children were cared for.
I don't believe its about justice - its about how we don't care enough about each other. None of us do. Thats why things like this happen. Because we don't look at ourselves. When was the last time you challenged someone when you saw something that is wrong? People don't & maybe we should.

lalalalyra · 08/02/2018 21:57

It's Jon Venables' ex-lawyer who is backing the naming of him. Robert Thompson had a different lawyer.

JediJim · 08/02/2018 21:58

When it comes to Venables I hope that his identity is now exposed. The 10 year old boy excuse well that ship sailed in 1993. We can’t keep protecting his identity.

YorkshireLawyer · 08/02/2018 21:58

Er... I’m not suggesting that we lock people up “just in case”. I am talking about convicted murderers who, at the age they committed that utterly heinous crime at, must be deeply, deeply disturbed individuals. The fact they were children should not mean they were let out without being completely sure they no longer posed any risk. Nothing I’ve read has led me to believe they received the treatment they needed such that that could be considered to be the case - and that has been proved beyond doubt in the case of one of them. How many chances would you suggest we give him to ruin children’s lives?

Thankfully, this was a pretty unique crime. I think it should be treated in a unique way, and if that many locking two ten year olds up for the rest of their lives for this particular crime - I think the circumstances warranted it.

JediJim · 08/02/2018 22:00

Laurence Lee was Venables solicitor. He actually came across as a decent man on the other documentary I saw.

Lovely456 · 08/02/2018 22:00

They are pure evil, They should never have been released.

YetAnotherUser · 08/02/2018 22:02

They are pure evil, They should never have been released.

And your logic behind that?

JediJim · 08/02/2018 22:06

The itv documentary hard to watch, although I like Trevor McDonald

Lovely456 · 08/02/2018 22:07

They murdered a little boy, Do I need to go in to all of the gorey details, Obviously a sympathiser? Do you sympathise with one of them repeatedly offending?

Lovely456 · 08/02/2018 22:08

I also found that hard to watch jedi, That poor poor little boy.

Sleepingbunnies · 08/02/2018 22:08

Forcing myself to watch the documentary. Hard going with a 2 year old asleep upstairs. Have tears in my eyes already :(

BakedBeans47 · 08/02/2018 22:08

Laurence Lee was Venables solicitor. He actually came across as a decent man on the other documentary I saw.

He was a young duty solicitor and really just got lumbered with the case from the start. It’s clear that he’s not got a favourable opinion of Venables and who can blame him. Ultimately regardless of what we think even the indefensible are entitled to representation, bloody hard job though.

loobyloo1234 · 08/02/2018 22:11

There was a similar case at about the same time as the bulger case in Norway (?)

Not similar whatsoever. The 'killers' in that case were 6. Nearly half of J and V age. They also killed a girl of a similar age. Just because they were children also, doesn't mean we should compare

SusanBunch · 08/02/2018 22:12

They murdered a little boy, Do I need to go in to all of the gorey details, Obviously a sympathiser? Do you sympathise with one of them repeatedly offending?

Every year there are adults, including parents, in court for horrific murders of children, including things just as gory as the JB murder. You probably couldn't even think of the names of many of these. They are rarely described as being beyond evil and very few receive whole life sentences. This care is shocking because the killers were so young, but why does that make it WORSE than if an adult (who definitely knows right from wrong and is often responsible for the child) murders a child?

tengreenbottlesstanding · 08/02/2018 22:14

The documentary tonight was horrific. Chilling.
The thought of James getting stoned down every time he tried to get back up.
The lives ruined outside of James’ family was also poignant. The depression, regret and guilt of the adult witness’ who could only have realised with hindsight what the fate of James was.
Lovely I agree, why spend all that money to rehabilitate these two and then let them out and risk reoffending.
There are children all over this country being abused, trafficked, bullied. Social services stretched beyond belief and can barely pick up the worst cases that they know of.
Then the money that has been spent on these two.
Children all over the world are suffering, I don’t see how in this context anyone could get so annoyed about the right of these two to be tried in a youth court.
Evil evil little fuckers.
That’s my opinion. I don’t care that they were tried in an adult court. They were treat better than they deserved.

JemimaHolm · 08/02/2018 22:15

Well, you are suggesting we should have kept both them locked up 'just in case'. Presumably that would also apply to other children convicted of serious offences? For Venebles I actually agree he should remain in custody - he has had his second chance as an adult, and his third. The threshold for him to be released again should be incredibly high. But for Thompson (and Mary Bell and other children who have committed murder/manslaughter) they haven't gone on to commit kill again. So keeping them in prison would have been 'just in case'.

Children who kill are thankfully rare. But I'm quite shocked that anyone actually believes in the death penalty for children - it isn't an opinion I've come across IRL.

Lovely456 · 08/02/2018 22:17

Where did I say its worse than if an adult did it??? Anyone that murders a kid needs locking up for life. The sentences handing down for any child abuser or killer is always lenient in this country its disgusting.

QuiteLikely5 · 08/02/2018 22:18

No death penalty!

Those killers need to live with themselves each and every day so they can face the horrors and hopefully feel the shame of what they done to poor James!

Killing them would be the easy option!

Lovely456 · 08/02/2018 22:19

Also susan just because a news headline might not read evil for some adults that kill children doesnt mean that people dont think it. I myself detest anyone that commits such a crime, I dont think they deserve any freedom at all.

Sleepingbunnies · 08/02/2018 22:20

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JemimaHolm · 08/02/2018 22:20

tengreenbottles, you either believe in the right to a fair trial or you don't. We can't have a justice system based on the idea that some people get a fair trial while other people don't. It isn't so much about justice for these two IMO, it is that the human right to a fair trial is one which must not ever be compromised.