To ask why women financially dependent on men are viewed as morally superior to those dependent on the state?!

[Primarkismyonlyoption]

Just that really, my experience and something I see everywhere.
Having a baby on benefits? Irresponsible. Single mums? A drain on society raising kids without fathers who are growing up to be uncontrollable. A government document citing such women as raising the 'psychopaths of the future'. Women to blame for a cycle of poverty which never ends.
What scroungers. Lack of morals. Less so than married women whose husbands work. Why?
Why are women in relationships where men provide financially known as SAHMs but single mums are just that. Implying thay staying at home is only a morally acceptable choice if you have a partner. The single parents are pushed to find work by baby aged 2. Housework for them isnt seen as work at all but sitting on their arses all day.

Instead of the moral segregation of women based on their relationship status why can we not view their lives as equal in the case of any woman whom cannot be financially independent in their own right, and start to look at how more women can become independent of both men and the welfare state?
And to stop double standards as if mums hide what money they have in order to claim money for their kids they are done for benefit fraud.
If men do it by hiding capital in court for maintenence or divorce, the woman is still gets judged for having to live off benefits whilst men get off scot free and go on to impregnate more whomen whom may or may not stay together. Worse, imo, the judgement of women recieving welfare assistance is doubled if there are more than one father, the children are mixed race, the more children there are or the fact the woman dares to have a sexual relationship with another partner whom she cannot afford to live with because most men cannot or won't take financial responsibility for children who aren't theirs just because they love their mum. And why should they?
As it happens I had babies on benefits and have fucking grafted to get to where I am. I work equally hard as I did then but in a totally different way. Yet the difference in how I am treated is astounding.
AIBU to ask for your views on this and what can we do to change it?

What do you do with your children when the relationship breaks down? Or becomes miserable or unbalanced?

Contraception

"She may also be "dependent" on nannies, nursery staff, child-minders, cleaners to keep things running while she's at work

Yes, dependent on their services, but the dependency we were talking about was financial."

Well if you want it in financial terms- she will be dependant on the state paying tax credits to subsidise the low wages of those workers- so that she can afford their services.

Personally I don’t see the problem with one parent staying home with preschool children, be they in a relationship or single. I think we would be a far better society if we stopped sticking all our different age bands in separate institutions.

Babies and children in childcare/school. Adults at work. Elderly in homes or alone.

I’m quite happy for my taxes to go towards supporting parents stay home with their babies. We all have a life time to work - and that time is getting longer and longer. What harm is there in supporting families when they are supporting the more vulnerable in society for those short blocks of time?

Well if you want it in financial terms- she will be dependant on the state paying tax credits to subsidise the low wages of those workers- so that she can afford their services.

That's a good point, actually. There was an academic on R4 yesterday putting forward a very similar argument. It's often lost in these debates.

Agree 100% OP

es relationships break down but sadly some put more thought into what top to buy than they do deciding to have a chid or if the man is the best father. Many don't even know who the father is

So really, when someone says ‘single mum’ to you, you just think ‘slag/slapped/no morals/scum’?

Who on earth do you think you are, judging me, and all the other single mums on here, when you know sod all about our lives?

The judgement towards us is disgusting condescending and revolting isnt it oh really

These kinds of threads always give me a laugh. All animals are equal except for pigs!

It's so easy to make judgements about people on the surface of things. Much more difficult to get down to the facts of an individuals situation and actually offer support. No one knows where they'll end up in life, regardless of how wonderfully sensible and organised they've been.

Here's a genuine example that I'd love to get other people's perspective on,
A woman has a baby and as a result develops psychosis. For 3 years post birth the women receives NHS treatment costing thousands to cure her and does not work/pay tax during this time.

Am I supposed to judge this woman differently based on who supported her during these 3 years? Shall I judge her differently if she's single and state supported or if she was supported by her DP/DH? Shall I judge the child's father at all?

Single mums dependent on the state are bringing up future tax payers. We have an aging population, we should help them with this much more than we do now.

I don't think it is a moral issue. We have decided as a society, through our elected representatives, to have a welfare system and people are free to do what is best for their own families within the law. In way less direct way than a husband, we have consented to giving our taxes to people in the form of benefits. Of course, there are people who disagree with the system.

I think humans are competitive by nature and will always try to make themselves feel better by comparing themselves to others. The single mum will feel she deserves more credit than the wealthy wife because of difficult circumstances and the wealthy wife likes to think she is better. It is all unpleasant.

The reason people see it as different is single mothers on benefits are a burden on the state. There is not enough money for everyone to do that.

I think a lot of the attitudes come down to poverty. Many people would consider the income that state handouts give is insufficient to support many children. Life happens and you have to deal with it but if you are on your 5th child by 5 fathers, those children are unlikely to have good opportunities in life and you have chosen to keep having them despite that. Some consider that irresponsible.

Living off your husbands income is a luxury and people who do that have the money for it.

Yes, it really is Portia but after 10 years, I am no longer surprised. One of the reasons I keep myself to myself is to avoid having to deal with these people. I have a close group of friends - both married and single - but it is a deliberately small group so I know who accepts me. Any hint of this shit and I drop people like hot stones. Sad but so necessary.

Jesus this thread is bonkers ! Not to mention people being quite rude to one another over nothing.

The judgement towards us is disgusting condescending and revolting isnt it oh really

Apparently one's moral superiority is based solely on relationship status according to some posters on this thread.

ith it but if you are on your 5th child by 5 fathers, those children are unlikely to have good opportunities in life and you have chosen to keep having them despite that. Some consider that irresponsible

I consider having 5 children by 5 father’s as a single parent irresponsible but in all seriousness, who many of the thousands of single mothers out there are in this situation? Few women make this kind of choice and if they do, chances are they believed the situation at a given time to be something different to how it evtually turned out. And yet still we are judged.

I have one child by my exh who became a violent alcoholic and I became a single Mother.

It never ceases to amaze me how the baying mob scream LTB on here yet when you do and have to get some help you're judged

@ohreallyohreallyoh
It is a tiny proportion.

I don't think many people judge those who have had some bad luck or things haven't turned out as they had hoped. Relationship breakdown is so common and it can happen to anyone.

People do think of it as less desirable outcome though and would expect it to be recognised as such by those in that situation. That does give rise to feelings of superiority but I think that is inevitable.

The idea that a single mother reliant on state benefits is as socially respectable as a self-sufficient marriage is a radical idea and goes against centuries of social history. It won't change because those whose marriages worked like to maintain their feeling of superiority and the state cannot afford to pick up the bill for it.

Single mums dependent on the state are bringing up future tax payers

There's no proof of that though.

Yes likely if the single parent is a career person but if unemployed or in a low paid job where top up benefits are needed then the likelihood is that the children will follow the example set. Just as in a two parent household if one opts out of work whist the other has to finance the option then that's the role model set.

An adult woman should not be financially dependent on anyone. That's my opinion.

There's no proof of that though

Please direct me to the research that shows single mums are not bringing up taxpayers.

Well yellow, the number one indicator of poor outcomes is POVERTY so it's in everybody's interest to make sure that the children single women are left holding have enough. In my own 'circle' the children of single parents are NO less intelligent. In fact, shoot me, but I think LEAVING a bad marriage can be the action taken by an intelligent mother in circumstances where a mother of very average intelligence would just grit it out. Maybe. I'll admit that's just a theory that popped in to my head. My own children are doing better at school than I ever did and my parents were married. Mind you we're not in poverty! And it is poverty that predicts poor outcomes at school

I'm worried about the intellectual and emotional poverty displayed by various people on this thread.

pooryoric, indeed.

An adult woman should not be financially dependent on anyone. That's my opinion.

On that basis, the vast majority of women shouldn't have children....

People do think of it as less desirable outcome though and would expect it to be recognised as such by those in that situation. That does give rise to feelings of superiority but I think that is inevitable

Why? Why is being a single parent a less desirable outcome? Why assume that? Why should I bow down to people who are married and say it’s OK to judge me, my children, because my marriage broke down? Why should I have to explain what happened to every Jane, Mary and Josephine so they can decide whether or not I deserve their respect? By all means judge me for being a total bitch, or a bad mother because I was late this morning, but don’t assume I’m a total bitch or was late because I’m single. I’m a bitch cos I’d rather not know you and late because I slept through my alarm. Yet all I hear is ‘yeah, she’s a single mum, bitch’ or ‘she was late cos she’s a single mum’.

I am who I am. I am no less worthy a person cos my husband left me. It has probably made me a better person in a million different ways, in fact. No one has a right to feel superior. I don’t need anyone to recognise the difficulties I face, we all have stuff going on, I would just like to be assumed a decent person, taken at face value. Not assumed I took no care in choosing a husband and that I don’t know who the father of my children is!

The other thing people forget as well is how much luck plays a part in their life. Judging other people for not being as lucky as them.