To really hate it when atheists take the piss out of those who believe in God?

[sharkirasharkira]

I have several FB friends who are obvious atheists, and often share things about science and/or about the concept of God being stupid -basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, a child (with an 'imaginary friend') or someone who has no idea about science and the universe.

I get that not everyone has faith in a higher being/religion etc but why the childish name calling and the necessity to take the piss out of those who do? It just really irritates me! Belief in God and an appriciation of science are not mutually exclusive. I find it quite offensive that people who don't know my personal beliefs are essentially saying that if I believe in God I must be an idiot or a child who believes in magical sky fairies, because theres no possible way I can believe in evolution (for example) and be an agnostic.

Aibu to think that people should just let others believe what they want to believe without mocking them for it, even if they don't agree with it?

What a ridiculous statement. I think we know we can't prove the existence of God.

I was trying to figure out the relevance of the comment about funerals to the thread, tbh. It was closest I could come; sorry for getting it wrong.

They're not theatrical performances for my enjoyment. They were services which chosen by the bereaved families. And in my case my brother, mother and father.

Indeed. I didn’t suggest they were, what a ridiculous statement of your own.

It is a pity that you found less comfort, dignity or celebration of life in some kinds of funerals than others. I’m sorry the humanist ones gave you less comfortZ

The conversation has really moved on (!) but I agree with you Op. I’m a Christian and therefore believe in God and I wouldn’t dream of speaking to atheists the way they talk about Christians. (I should stress, some atheists... some of my best friends are atheists and are very respectful, as I am of them).
I have a science degree and find the more I learn about science the more I believe in God. For example, protein synthesis is so bloody complicated! It makes me think there’s an intelligent designer behind it.

Catching up.

irrelevant stories told by someone who didn't know them or the deceased and is just going through the motions. Well my MIL had a humanist funeral and it was conducted by someone who never met her.
It was truly awful. My MIL was an atheist so we respected her wishes.
I belong to a close knit community and we go to funerals of people in that community. I've probably known the deceased person all my life in most cases.
People stand up recall fond memories. My DF's funeral was actually a hoot with funny stories, songs and poems. The minister struck exactly the right tone.

My GMIL’s funeral (religious) was like your MIL’s, derxa. I agree, impersonal funerals conducted by someone with little or no knowledge of the decease can be dreadful.

I disagree with the idea (and apologies if I’ve got it wrong again) that it’s inherent to a particular kind of funeral (religious or non-religious). It probably has more to do with the community that the deceased was a part of and how the service involves and reflects that community.

I have to ask, now that the thread has turned to funerals. Why are religious funerals such sad things? Why aren't they celebrating the move to the afterlife utopia? Its not just about missing them for a few years it a deep grief commiserating that they have permanently stopped existing. I dont get the contradiction?

I think that where you draw spiritual comfort when you are up against it largely depends on the patterns that were woven in your childhood and your community. There is so much that is powerfully reassuring in religion - the Catholics knew a thing or two about the power of ritual and incantation, but even the Anglicans can do a lot with a snuffed out candle if you had a church-going childhood. Less cynically, we do have a deep seated need to believe something about our importance, our place etc and to make sense of the unsensable. In my family, we faced a shocking personal tragedy when I was under 10 and this definitely crafted my own feelings about religion. I can be as sceptical as you like, but in the end I always remember a sense of the comforting 'embrace' of it as a good thing - a positive force. And I suspect that if something similarly unspeakable were ever to happen again, in the privacy of my own head i would appeal to 'God', whatever that means.

I don't get this either. Surely religious funerals should be really celebrating a person getting to go to heaven/paradise?

I also don't get why Christians hate the devil. Surely, if he's down there in the depths of hell, putting all the bad people through purgatory and damnation, it would make more sense to worship the devil for being a good old chap?

Well Messy, see my last post.

Jessy sorry (damn autocorrect I had to put that in 3 times)

I have to ask, now that the thread has turned to funerals. Why are religious funerals such sad things? Why aren't they celebrating the move to the afterlife utopia? Its not just about missing them for a few years it a deep grief commiserating that they have permanently stopped existing. I dont get the contradiction?

Aren't all funerals sad?
It doesn't make death/grief any easier though, human emotion doesn't change because you are religious.
Religion perhaps if anything gives people some comfort after losing someone, of the hope that they will meet again.
Death and grief can be testing times for some religious people also, depending on circumstances surrounding.

Colours, I get that’s frustrating. But it doesn’t seem productive (or polite) to reply to a poster who hasn’t done anything of the sort in that way?

It was a fairly pedantic point in the first place, and came across to me as wanting to show how much more you knew by splitting hairs on name v title (which relies so much on how certain Hebrew words were rendered in translation, it’s not scriptuallu straightforward or even consistent). Followed by the PA bit.

*scripturally

I think it's worse when people single out a specific religion to ridicule or hate. There is much against the Catholic Church on MN. But it was here before MN and will remain after MN is nothing but a memory.

Sorry, why are we talking about funerals?

On the subject of capital letters, god is also a generic term for deity. I'll capitalise or not depending on whether I am naming the Christian god or using the word as a synonym for deity. Note in that sentence I could reasonable do either.

Vivienne, I think it’s natural to a degree, given that the Christian denominations are those people in the UK will have had vastly more exposure to from childhood - and the faiths that many atheists, including me, used to share.

And of course Christianity, more than any other religion, occupies a privileged space in the public sphere. Most atheists I’ve encountered are fairly live and let live. Unfortunately, the Catholic and Anglican churches in Britain aren’t that keen on the ‘let live’ on their side.

That said, I will happily criticise the parts of any religion I think are particularly problematic and talk about where and why I think they developed.

What I'm picking up from the original post is that its on FB - where people get a bit extreme - and it's posts which are shared ie. not authored by said friends. Maybe they have godsquad friends who post a lot about how great it is to have religion in their lives and it's a retaliation for that. I'm religious but have seen religious postings that would make me a bit irritated if I was an aetheist. And, I think because I am religious, I don't get offended at the antireligious stuff as my belief in a higher power feels intuitive. I totally get why people think the science of evolution is so compelling as to make them reject the idea of God. For me it's not mutually exclusive. I love having faith and that's more than enough for me to turn the other cheek to people (including DH) who don't get it.

Derxa "Well my MIL had a humanist funeral and it was conducted by someone who never met her.
It was truly awful. My MIL was an atheist so we respected her wishes."
Sorry you had a bad experience. Sounds like the particular officiant you got wasn't much cop (which can happen). I have had officiant training, and we are taught to work with the family and close friends to put together a ceremony that's appropriate to those people (because we usually won't have met the deceased). So there will be stories about the person's life, favourite bits of music and/or poems etc. But a religious officiant, who had never met the deceased, can do just as crappy a job.

It doesn't make death/grief any easier though, human emotion doesn't change because you are religious Which doesn't explain why religious people aren't happy when someone goes on the best holiday ever. Its almost as if people are hit with the realisation that it really is the end, it really is all over and they have never had the time to come to terms with it, hence all the grief.

Humanist funerals seem much more accepting that its the end of the journey, the circle of life, something they have expected all their lives. And I see a lot more of them actually celebrating their lives rather than mourning the end of their existence.

shiny, it’s really interesting that you’re using language like ‘rejecting God’.

For me, rejecting the Christian god was entirely separate from coming to the conclusion I was an atheist. I suspect it was for others. When I ‘rejected’ God (or more accurately, came to the conclusion that the Christian god wasn’t real; I don’t think you can really reject something that doesn’t exist) I stopped being a Christian.

Atheism was a different step. The fact that I didn’t believe in any gods. That all deities were on equal footing, and all equally fictional.

I find the sort of language you’ve used interesting as it reflects what I’ve come across with many Christians - a very Christianity-centred worldview (understandable) where atheism is a specific rejection of the Christian god, and where atheists and other non-believers still see themselves in terms of their belief or non-belief in Christian theology.

I think it can be quite hard to relate to the fact that many, perhaps most, atheists don’t tend to see themselves as atheists in relation to Christianity specifically, except in cases where Christianity forces itself into their lives in one way or another. And that when Christians talk about atheism in relation to the Christian god it can come across as quite arrogant - that our lack of belief in any gods must be specifically about a rejection of yours.

I went to a christening recently and they asked if I wanted a bible to read along, I said "no thanks" but smiled through everything sincerely
DH (an atheist) sang along with the songs (hypocrisy at it's finest imo) but I believe it shows respect on all sides. You should respect everyone's views wherever you are. You don't have to join their religion or even understand it, you just have to expect people are entitled to have their own beliefs. It's good old fashioned 'if you have nothing nice to say...'

Humanist funerals seem much more accepting that its the end of the journey, the circle of life, something they have expected all their lives.

Without wanting to take sides on the funeral issue (how did we get here?) I remember it was at a humanist funeral that I heard the Carl Sagan stardust quote for the first time.

I know it’s almost a cliche now but I find such wonder and joy in it, and my son has loves the idea - the fact! - that every part of his amazing body is made from the dust of an ancient sun.

patriarchy

They are still both fish and adaptive and small changes within like groups do not address the subject of origins.

The human genome is not an example of macro evolution.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.”

― Carl Sagan, Cosmos

Lashalicious What is macro evolution? That is a religious term, in science there is only evolution. When is your Nobel prize due for discovering this new type of evolution?