Aibu in being shocked at this school newsletter?

[whensitmyturn]

Aibu in being pretty appalled at this school news letter or am i being naive?

Children attend a catholic primary school- dh is Catholic I am not. Never had an issue with the school, children are in the last couple of years there.

Had a newsletter home tonight saying that a new ‘children and social work act of 2017’ has been passed and that parents will no longer be able to remove their children for PSHE lessons but that the government are still deciding what content the lessons should have. There is a public questionnaire on gov.uk to write your ideas.

The newsletter then goes on to say that we need to ensure that things that are age suited to children get suggested and I quote ‘to avoid respect for alternative lifestyles being allowed to undermine Christian principles of marriage and family life’.

It then goes on to link ‘coalition for marriage’ for help with us filling in this questionnaire.

Coalition 4 marriage is a group that promotes a traditional family set up and states that children should be taught that ‘marriage between a man and a woman as the gold standard of adult relationships’ Also that ‘they believe there is no age-appropriate way to teach primary school children about same sex marriages or transgenderism’. In blinding hypocrisy it then goes on to say ‘we should be teaching children broad values of tolerance and respect’.

!? I thought that in this day and age in the uk even if you attend a faith school inclusivity was seen as important/ the norm.
Would you be angry at this or just see it as an unavoidable downside of attending a catholic school?

You missed the bit about teaching children broad values of tolerance and respect. Why am I not surprised.

The newsletter then goes on to say that we need to ensure that things that are age suited to children get suggested and I quote ‘to avoid respect for alternative lifestyles being allowed to undermine Christian principles of marriage and family life’.

To clarify, therefore, the concern is that some topics are not age appropriate for children of primary age in a RC setting. We are talking about children of age 4, 5, 6, 7, etc.

RC doctrine on marriage and sexuality is not usually approached until children are much older when the topics have some relevance and the intellect has developed sufficiently to grasp complex arguments. The topics are complex and far beyond the ability of young children to understand.

The church prefers to emphasise what the majority of children can relate to, i.e. a traditional marriage and family life, as a model for its concept of the life of all people (all people excluding nobody) as the Family of God, into which concept of the sacraments of baptism, eucharist, and reconciliation are integrated in forms that are relevant to the age of the children approaching these sacraments.

The sacrament of reconciliation used to be offered right before first communion and is now done a few years later in some dioceses thanks to developing understanding that 6/7 year olds were only capable of a very inadequate grasp of what the sacrament was all about.

The church's emphasis on what children can relate to explains also the focus on Christmas as part of children's introduction to the life of Jesus. A baby's birth is something children find very interesting and relevant to their own lives when they are young...

The age of the children limits the subtlety that can be brought to bear on complex topics - the RC church does not, contrary to opinion here, shoot from the lip and require a response of 'Yes sir'. The church expects confirmed adults (people over the age of confirmation, usually young teens) to understand the arguments for and against, and to gradually absorb the arguments for the sacramental view of marriage, aka "Christian principles of marriage and family life". This is not a simple list of "Thou shalt not.."

There is nothing in the parts of the newsletter quoted by the OP that says no teaching on the topics of same sex marriage or transgenderism should ever take place in a Catholic educational setting. Just not in a primary school.

When it comes to small children, maybe the church would prefer to focus on teaching tolerance in a context that is actually relevant to their lives. The emphasis on the traditional family arises from the core mission of the RC school - to prepare children for life as Catholics with a sound grasp of the RC sacraments. It's not done to disparage all other ideas of how life should be conducted.

I love all the comments saying what do you expect if you choose a faith school, as though there is any "choice". Our choice was a faith school or home educate which isn't really a choice at all. I hate having to tell my kids that their teachers sometimes tell them things as fact that are not facts, but I suppose it is doing wonders for their critical thinking skills.

More intolerance and external blame there, I see, nextDayDelivery

I think I'm a better person because of this intolerance.
'Special subject: the bleeding obviou'.

Having skimmed the thread, I notice the OP hasn't been back for a while, but in case they do see this :

I have no comment about faith schools or the Catholic church in general, however the school communication the OP quotes is factually incorrect. Only small sections of the Children and Social Work Act 2017 are currently in force. The remainder is proposed, and still requires statutory instruments etc to enact it.

There is no suggested date for when this will occur.

Sections 34 and 35 are the relevant ones but they are very vague. There is no reference to children not being allowed to opt out of PHSE.

Legislation here www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/16?view=interweave

It's weird I was practicing pagan during my uni days and only ever heard members of my coven slag of religious people and especially the Catholic Church, lots of hatred and assumptions about how much Catholics/ religious people hated us pagans
On this thread again, I hear lots of assumptions regarding the teachings of the church towards our children

As someone who is raising their child Catholic, at a catholic school, has taught at a Catholic school, with a DP who is management at a Catholic school, with catholic in laws, I have NEVER in all the years heard a single Catholic person/priest/teacher spout ANY of the intolerant homophobic narrow mind bullshit that they are accused of spouting here. It just isn't my experience at all.

and seriously they won't teach a girl not to use Tampons that is ridiculous but as it's a primary school they might not cover that.

Not ridiculous, it still happens.

This doesn’t surprise me at all. I think if you send your children to a catholic school this is very much the norm. I am a non practicing catholic ( as is my husband) and our three children attend a Catholic school. I’m afraid if you want your children to learn about same sex marriages etc you have two choices.
Change schools or teach them yourself.

sashh assuming this has happened to your child recently then I respectfully suggest you make your complaint known to the school and education authority

"A baby's birth is something children find very interesting and relevant to their own lives when they are young..."

But they ask the best questions

"was Joseph Jesus' Daddy?"
"if god can do anything, why couldn't he find them a hotel?"

I hate to break it to you but the reason children love Christmas isn't the whole 'virgin birth' thing. It has more to do with turkey and ham, chocolate and Father Christmas.

"The topics are complex and far beyond the ability of young children to understand."

I have a PhD - an unrelated field but I'm fairly smart. The arguements of why infanticide, genocide, homophobia, racism and misogyny are acceptable is far beyond my ability to understand too. The purpose of allegorical genocide in a book which is supposed to guide you through like is waaaaaaay beyond my understanding too.

There is nothing complex about the bible unless you're talking about contradictions and hypocrisy but that undermines the whole idea of having a 'good book'.

Where is the subtlety is god killing all the firstborns, commanding people to kill everyone except the virgins who they can "take for yourselves" or, my favourite, 'flood the Earth but keep two of everything (that's 16.4 million in case you were wondering) on your really massive boat. I'm going to kill everyone except your family. I'm a loving god, remember. Don't get me wrong, the bible is mind-boggling but it lack subtlety.

"to avoid respect for alternative lifestyles being allowed to undermine Christian principles of marriage and family life’."

I read this as 'respect others but don't let them undermine what we've taught you is "right"'. Something like 'tolerate the gays but don't get sucked in by their wickedness and remember they're going to hell!

"I think I'm a better person because of this intolerance."

Yes. If you believe the bible and live your life by its values then I am better than you. A racist is a worse person than someone who isn't. A homophobe is a worse person than someone who isn't. A hypocrite is a worse person than someone who isn't etc.

Yes, I'm intolerant of evil and racism, homophobia etc. You ignored the one question I asked. I'll try again.

Is being tolerant of evil a good or bad thing?

You also didn't give any idea what you mean by external blame and how I've demonstrated it.

Catholic schools have no issue woth male and female anatomy. Why on earth would they take issue with tampons? Im alarmed at thr amount of orejudice towards Catholicism on this thread but an awful not of it is because people have strange ideas about what the Church actually means.
Catholic schools Are, in my experience, very good at teaching aboit ALL major religions. Having that education helps a lot when forming opinions about the faith of others. I can happily accept that you don't believe what I do, I don't need to use insulting, disrespectful language to tell you I feel differently.

Nofunkingworriesmate

Not my child, and yes it does still happen. It happened at my school, it happened at friends' school and it is still happening.

As someone who is raising their child Catholic, at a catholic school, has taught at a Catholic school, with a DP who is management at a Catholic school, with catholic in laws, I have NEVER in all the years heard a single Catholic person/priest/teacher spout ANY of the intolerant homophobic narrow mind bullshit that they are accused of spouting here. It just isn't my experience at all.

And you experience is more relevant than any one else's?

The catholic cburch has no issues with tampons. What were the reasons given?

“The catholic cburch has no issues with tampons. What were the reasons given?”

Catholic schools certainly used to. For darkly mumbled half understood reasons to do with virginity. But then lots of other people thought like that too.

My Catholic school had free tampons in all the toilets

sashh
My point was there are a lot of people on this thread reporting Catholic Church/ school horror stories that are out of date and second hand. I am respectfully suggesting that as the tale of girls being told not to use tampons is not a first hand experience of yours, but a friends it may not be current, fair or accurate ( if it is I apologise and the parent should complain as this is terrible) this tampon lesson certainly would not happen in any Catholic school I know.
My reason for posting out my personal experience of the Catholic Church was mearly sharing my experience as a non Catholic married into Catholic family and having several decades of teaching in Catholic school makes what I have to say current and first hand. a Few posters are reporting experiences regarding what kids are told in a Catholic setting that bear no resemblance what so ever to my experience. As there not a lot of Catholic positivity on this thread I was Just sharing for balance thats all

"The catholic church has no issues with tampons."

Hmm.

"Born in the depths of hell itself, tampons are an evil sex toy, a phallic device designed to arouse menstruating women and lure them into all manner of sin. Tampons were created by Satan for pleasure, and young women are succumbing to the Devil without even realizing it."

Some of them clearly do.

Yes I'm sure some Catholics have issienwith tampons. I'm sure if you looked you could find something equally ridiculous from an antheist. That wouldn't suit your agenda though...

I didn't say it was the "'virgin birth' thing" that made children like the Christmas story.
Here's what I said (you C&Pd it yourself):
A baby's birth is something children find very interesting and relevant to their own lives when they are young
Why would any story pitched at children include the element of virgin birth?

I see you have heard of a few biblical stories. Or maybe you read the bible with the same attention to detail as you have shown in your reading of my posts.

A few questions:
Do you think human sexuality is a complex, nuanced matter?
Do you think sexual relationships are complex and nuanced?
Do you think intimate relationships of any kind are complex and nuanced?
What is your opinion on Grimm's Fairy Tales?
Do you think children of 6 or 7 should study the origins of the Whigs and Tories in detail?
Do you think morality is complex and nuanced? I get the feeling you don't.
...
to avoid respect for alternative lifestyles being allowed to undermine Christian principles of marriage and family life’.

I read this as 'respect others but don't let them undermine what we've taught you is "right"'. Something like 'tolerate the gays but don't get sucked in by their wickedness and remember they're going to hell!
I have every reason to believe you actually thought this.

I think I'm a better person because of this intolerance.
You already said that. I suspect you already know that most people who claim superiority do not include 'intolerance' as evidence of this.
.........

Is being tolerant of evil a good or bad thing

I'll have a stab at that.
You stated that religion is 'evil'. This is an opinion, not a fact. You have the right to hold this opinion.
Within your own circular argument, conducted on your own terms, of course you should go on being intolerant. I doubt anyone is going to put a stop to your gallop anyway.
Look at me, tolerating you!

However, intolerance to religion (I assume you mean private, personal faith and organised religion alike, but correct me if I am wrong) or any other bete noir of your choosing that is legal - something annoying like public urination or even potentially harmful like anti-vax organisations - to the point where you think they should be 'eradicated' (and again I am not sure what you have in mind there, but it seems ominous) makes you a Bolshevik of sorts. Problems, problems...

Maybe the answer lies in the creation of a list, with things that are, after due consideration, objectively (to the extent we can be objective, given human frailty) intolerable on top, and things that are objectively tolerable (see caveat) even though we don't like them much on the bottom? Your list and mine might not coincide exactly, but I think we would find a lot of items in the 3-8 range that matched.

What's my "anthesit" agenda?

I'm anti-theist, in case you were wondering and I do regret posting that reply. It's clearly from someone with their own issues using religion as an outlet.

A major problem I have with religion is not that it attracts stupid and ignorant followers but that it somehow sucks in otherwise good people. That's baffling. Like I quoted, "it takes religion for good people to do evil". Religion poisons everything.

Oh yes, external blame - 'religion is evil'.

“Yes I'm sure some Catholics have issienwith tampons. I'm sure if you looked you could find something equally ridiculous from an antheist. That wouldn't suit your agenda though...”

I am sure lots of atheists think ridiculous things. What’s your point?

And more external blame - "it takes religion for good people to do evil". Religion poisons everything

"When it comes to small children, maybe the church would prefer to focus on teaching tolerance in a context that is actually relevant to their lives"

You mean because they live in a society where homosexuality absolutely doesn't exist and there is no chance they will ever come across a playmate with two mummies...

"When it comes to small children, maybe the church would prefer to focus on teaching tolerance in a context that is actually relevant to their lives"

Yes. Gay people and the children of gay people are such a tiresome irrelevance.

Clearly antheist was a typo. Acting confused about typoed is the usual route when one has run out of legitimate points though.

My point is that googling "Catholics hate tampons" and finding a quote from a random person does not imply that the Catholic church in general has an official stance against tampons. If I say the sky is pink you can't then go around declaring that Catholics think the sky is pink. I'm sure you could find plenty of atheist people, Jewish people, Buddhist people who for whatever reason think tampons are wrong. It's Not the general view of Catholics any more than its the general view of any other group of people.