Aibu in being shocked at this school newsletter?

[whensitmyturn]

Aibu in being pretty appalled at this school news letter or am i being naive?

Children attend a catholic primary school- dh is Catholic I am not. Never had an issue with the school, children are in the last couple of years there.

Had a newsletter home tonight saying that a new ‘children and social work act of 2017’ has been passed and that parents will no longer be able to remove their children for PSHE lessons but that the government are still deciding what content the lessons should have. There is a public questionnaire on gov.uk to write your ideas.

The newsletter then goes on to say that we need to ensure that things that are age suited to children get suggested and I quote ‘to avoid respect for alternative lifestyles being allowed to undermine Christian principles of marriage and family life’.

It then goes on to link ‘coalition for marriage’ for help with us filling in this questionnaire.

Coalition 4 marriage is a group that promotes a traditional family set up and states that children should be taught that ‘marriage between a man and a woman as the gold standard of adult relationships’ Also that ‘they believe there is no age-appropriate way to teach primary school children about same sex marriages or transgenderism’. In blinding hypocrisy it then goes on to say ‘we should be teaching children broad values of tolerance and respect’.

!? I thought that in this day and age in the uk even if you attend a faith school inclusivity was seen as important/ the norm.
Would you be angry at this or just see it as an unavoidable downside of attending a catholic school?

Catholics believe marriage should be for a man and a women. This is written in the Bible they follow and they believe it is a command from God.
Because of this instruction from the Bible Catholics do not believe in a man marrying another man.

What is hard or wrong with that?
It is what they believe

Currently the Church pays for around 10% of the costs of faith schools (as well as generally owning the school land and building) thus subsidising the education of children in other schools.

No, that’s a misrepresentation. They pay none of the admin costs and around 10% of the capital costs. Everything else comes from the state.

The CofE and the RC church in England have done very well out of the state, both in terms of being paid to promote their faiths through the state education system, and by having their land and buildings maintained and new buildings built for them while doing so.

Given the context, it’s fairly reasonable for the state (and by extension the voters who enable it) to have an interest in what is taught in such schools and how it is taught, whether or not they have children there.

Hitler believed he was a superior race.
He wanted only his race to live
Because of this belief he made all those of different race suffer.

Etc
It is not telling anyone that hitler was right?
Or saying we have to follow his orders?

I am constantly amazed at the wilful refusal of people to understand the difference between teaching about religion and teaching to do religion. I can only think that it is deliberate faux misunderstanding. It can't possibly be real.

Thank you, LipstickHandbagCoffee

There's a lot of C of E type schools, they always have been and still are tied to religion

There are indeed - and some of us are against state support of these too. Ditto Muslim, Jewish and any other type of school which uses public money as a vehicle to promote religion

If parents wish their children to receive religious instruction at evening classes, weekend events and so on that's entirely their affair, but for me all state funded schools should be strictly secular

Most people (I hope!) would not accept it if schools could teach children racist beliefs and that is how I feel about homophobic beliefs. I don't care why someone hasn't homophobic views. There's no place for them in schools.
Some schools in a predominately Christian country are still tied to a religion.People can marry regardless of sex now. We shouldn't be barging in and telling them their way of thinking is wrong, it's what they believe.
Marriage to Christians/Catholics is between a man and a woman.
If you are vehemently against the idea of your children being exposed to such "nonsense", then you find alternatives.

You cannot force anyone to do religion .

People may force children to close their eyes or say a prayer.

But it means nothing without belief

Catholics believe marriage should be for a man and a women. This is written in the Bible they follow and they believe it is a command from God.
Because of this instruction from the Bible Catholics do not believe in a man marrying another man.

What is hard or wrong with that?
It is what they believe

Imagine if the bible had said marriage is between a 2 white people not a black and white personal. Would that still be ok and not racist because it would be what people believe?

It's the same logic.

Should we bring back the law against men having sex with men? After all that was based on religious belief so would not be wrong by the same logic.

No Catholic school would teach Genesis as fact. This is what I'm trying to say, you have no idea what you're talking about.

No, my son’s is CofE. I know what I’m talking about with my son’s school, which I hope is acceptable to you?

And they’re teaching bible stories to small kids, telling them in assembly that the Christian god is real, and in RE telling them the dear old bible stories about heaven and earth, the land and the sea. And it’s hard to explain to little kids ‘this bit of the bible is allegorical, but this bit is absolutely true’. So the kids come home going ‘so we had RE today, and the Bible says the earth was made in a week but that’s not true, is it Mummy, because of the Big Bang. So God can’t be real.’

It’s a charmingly ineffective way of trying to indoctrinate small kids. They may do better later on but they’ve turned mine into an atheist within a year (we’ve always been very careful at home not to promote any beliefs or none because we don’t want to undermine the school).

It's not the same logic is it?

It doesn't matter hat the beliefs are. It is just wrong that admission to state finders schools should be dependent on having particular beliefs. Whatever they are

It's not the same logic

• men and women can procreate population was needed.
• men sleeping with other men (during the time of writing) was seen as dangerous to themselves disease/damage.

It had nothing to do with race

I've not once said religion shouldn't be taught. I've said it shouldn't be taught as fact, particularly where it comes to bigoted views.

In the Hitler scenario a comparison would be Nazi's starting up schools and teaching their beliefs as facts.

Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other. I'll say again I don't think religion shouldn't be taught in schools, but I do think it should not be taught as a fact.

Because of this instruction from the Bible Catholics do not believe in a man marrying another man.

What is hard or wrong with that?

Well, it’s not true for a start. They can believe that it’s not acceptable for a man to marry another man (or a woman a woman) while a member of the Catholic faith and following it’s teachings. That’s fine.

But not ‘believing’ that same sex marriage is an institution under the law, accep Ed enabled by the state, and that secular marriage is distinct from a Catholic sacrament is sort of like not believing that cheese exists because you’re allergic to dairy (incompatible for your body rather than beliefs).

Same sex marriage, or cheese, both exist. They’re just not for everyone (the dairy-intolerant or those who follow faiths that have a distinct and restrictive religious view of marriage).

The failure to recognise and support secular marriage as a valid institution outwith the church is a bit worrying and weird and, yes, intolerant.

And they’re teaching bible stories to small kids, telling them in assembly that the Christian god is real, and in RE telling them the dear old bible stories about heaven and earth, the land and the sea. And it’s hard to explain to little kids ‘this bit of the bible is allegorical, but this bit is absolutely true’. So the kids come home going ‘so we had RE today, and the Bible says the earth was made in a week but that’s not true, is it Mummy, because of the Big Bang. So God can’t be real.’

I went to a C of E primary school as a child. Went to Sunday school too. (kind of like a playgroup for primary school. An hour on Sun morning, slice of battenburg and drink of juice and attached to the church. )
I grew up and knew that there are other ways of thinking out there.
Tell them that that's only one way of thinking if you feel so strongly. Put across your point of view too. Surely it's better to have a rounded sense of all religions/viewpoints than a very narrow one that doesn't allow others to be accepted.

It is the same logic.

You think men shouldn't marry women is not homophobic because it was in the bible

Therefore you think something being in the bible means it is immune from being bigoted.

Therefore if the bible had forbidden interracial marriage the logic would be it wouldn't be bigoted.

But in a Catholic church men can't marry men. So it is true in their belief.

Catholic don't recognize it as a marriage.

If you are vehemently against the idea of your children being exposed to such "nonsense", then you find alternatives.

I am opposed to any kids being taught homophobic or any other bigoted views as facts in schools.

Just a small voice here - not all Catholics think same sex marriage is wrong, just as not all Catholics follow the churches teachings on contraception or abortion. I am a very happy, practicing Catholic, very active in my parish. I was also 'best man' at my gay best mates wedding and that same best mate is godfather to all my DCs. For any Christian the most important teaching of Christ is 'to love one another' and if some of the churches teachings seem wrong or unloving to me I am happy to defy them and lobby for change from within.

If parents wish their children to receive religious instruction at evening classes, weekend events and so on that's entirely their affair.

And is in fact what lots of people with religious beliefs already do because they don’t have a school that ‘matches’ their beliefs nearby. Some people get lucky, but there is no right to an education in the faith of one’s choice.

There is no right at all under English law to an education in school without any religious characteristics, which remains perplexing given the small proportion of people in England who actually practise faith or profess to believe in a deity.

No, it was an instruction or advice of the time due to possible damage to the body.

Just as many other bits of advice you find in the OT.

But you sent them to a catholic schools of course they're not going to be supporters of same sex marriage as it goes against the teachings of the bible! I went to catholic schools so seen this same attitude towards same sex marriages myself they would cover it but they would always finish up with how it goes against the god and it's a sin. You'll have to teach your child about the wider world when it comes to sexuality and love.

Loonoonow

I made the same point many pages ago.

Today 23:18 sunshineintheclouds

But in a Catholic church men can't marry men. So it is true in their belief.

Catholic don't recognize it as a marriage.

I'm aware of that. Again, I have no problem with schools teaching facts about different religions in a "this is what they believe" way. I would have a problem with schools teaching "gay marriage is wrong because of the bible"

teaching "gay marriage is wrong because of the bible"

Yes I would too.