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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask how important the SATs are for the CHILD (not the school)

77 replies

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:19

I know SATS are massively important for the school, and it piles ridiculous amounts of pressure on the teachers etc etc. Quite aware of that and I know teachers have a tough job etc etc. Not denying it for a moment.

BUT how important are the Year SATS to the child? Do the results stay on their record forever? Do the secondary schools have to take notice, or is it entirely up to the individual school? (I know that at the school my son is going to, they do tests in English and Maths for streaming after the first half term anyway, and then retest every term).

I'm wondering about the ramifications of taking my son out of the SATs. If it's even possible. I don't want to damage his future but, equally, I would like to make a stand over the current nonsense and spare him the stress (although he would still have to go to school, and therefore would do the work all the same, even if some of it seems to be of dubious use for future). I don't want to use him as a political pawn if it'll affect him but I do feel (as with many other shit things in this country) that it's about bloody time people started taking a stand.

This is not a teacher or school-shaming post, I'd just like some information - not even opinions, just facts from people who might know or have done the same.

Thanks

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Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:20
  • Year 6, that should read.
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scaryteacher · 01/02/2018 19:25

Ds went to an International school where they insisted on doing SATS. Waste of time, no using the results to track attainment in secondary. Wish I'd pulled him from the SATS but had a little moment of schadenfreude when he got straight level 5s despite his teacher telling me he would be lucky to achieve level 4s. Ds was happy to see her discombobulated as well, as she was such a bitch to him. He went from enjoying school to loathing it in half a term. He was her whipping boy for the year.

sirlee66 · 01/02/2018 19:25

Worked in year 6 for 7 years. Sats only matter to the school. Makes no difference to the child. All about tables and figures and Ofsted unfortunately.

LadyLooLaa · 01/02/2018 19:26

SATS along with other data is used to generate target grades for students later in their educational career.
These are used to place students in sets, differentiate work etc.
Standardised testing is a way of ensuring that students are getting an adequate standard of education.
BUT I work in secondary and can honestly say that I don’t really see the point of SATs and don’t feel very comfortable about my kids doing them. I can’t really see what they do for the children. In fact if children are coached too hard they’re going to end up with target grades that are very high and that’s just going to lead to greater pressure later on.

I can see why primary schools have to push for good results and I massively admire primary teachers (I definitely couldn’t do it).

Having said all of this, I am hoping that someone will come along and give a really compelling argument for SATS that will change my mind.

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:27

Am I within my rights to say I won't allow him to take them? That's the million dollar question! School very good at brow beating parents so need to be one step ahead!

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Eolian · 01/02/2018 19:28

Some schools base setting on SATS results. I'm a teacher with dc in year 8 and year 5. I'm no big fan of SATS but I wouldn't go as far as withdrawing my dc from them. Firstly because I wouldn't want to piss off the lovely teachers at my village primary. Secondly because there are umpteen things wrong with the current education system but withdrawing my dc from things will not fix anything.

Gatehouse77 · 01/02/2018 19:29

SATS results are what secondary schools use to project progress and set GCSE targets. All to please Ofsted because, of course, nobody ever plateaus Hmm

whereisteddy · 01/02/2018 19:29

Absolutely pointless for the child (am a secondary school teacher and former senco). I will not be worrying about them when my one gets to them. Primary schools train kids for them resulting in over inflated grades and children being unable to perform at that level independently; I once had a child who could not spell their own name or read independently but had GCSE target grades set from the says as a* across the board. Damaging for the child in my opinion, value only for the school.

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:30

I've never yet heard a good argument for them - only criticism, especially the SPAG.

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Bea · 01/02/2018 19:35

A Guide to Education... From Michael Rosen....Wink

You get education in schools.

To find out how much education you get,

the government gives you tests.

Before you do the tests

the government likes it if you are put on

different tables that show how well or badly

you are going to do in the tests.

The tests test whether they

have put you on the right table.

The tests test whether you know what you’re

supposed to know.

But

don’t try to get to know any old stuff like

‘What is earwax?’ or ‘how to make soup’.

The way to know things you’re supposed to know

is to do pretend tests.

When you do the pretend tests

you learn how to think in the way that tests

want you to think.

The more practice you do,

the more likely it is that you won’t make the mistake

of thinking in any other way other than in

the special test way of thinking.

Here’s an example:

The apples are growing on the tree.

What is growing on the tree?

If you say, ‘leaves’, you are wrong.

It’s no use you thinking that when apples are on a tree

there are usually leaves on the tree too.

There is only one answer. And that is ‘apples’.

All other answers are wrong.

If you are the kind of person that thinks ‘leaves’ is a

good answer, doing lots and lots and lots of practice tests

will get you to stop thinking that ‘leaves’ is a good answer.

Doing many, many practice tests will also make it

very likely that there won’t be time for you to go out

and have a look at an apple tree to see what else

grows on apple trees. Like ants. Or mistletoe.

Education is getting much better these days

because there is much more testing.

Remember, it’s ‘apples’ not ‘leaves’.

exLtEveDallas · 01/02/2018 19:35

Personally I think they matter not a jot.

Yes, DD was streamed based on her SATs but her secondary school does CATs at the end of Oct and there were some moves in and out of sets based on them.

So if a child doesn't do them then yes, they could be placed in the wrong sets for 6/7 weeks, but I seriously doubt they'd stay in the wrong sets for long.

They only thing I will say. If you care about the primary then I would tell them long before 14 May so they have time to see if there is anything then can do to disapply him. If you don't tell them and he doesn't take SATS he will be marked as scoring zero which will reflect badly on the school.

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:35

What will fix this broken and shit system? Direct action surely is the only way. Given the growing awareness of the mental fragility of our kids before they've even left primary school, why are teachers / parents / unions not standing up against the policy makers. We all moan but suck it up. I think mental health is more important than any exams.

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Bea · 01/02/2018 19:37

Poor schools and teachers who have to do these tests to justify their existence!... And poor children who fret and worry.. Even if their school is very low key and non pressure with the "prep"... (dd's school!)

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:37

Bea: I follow Michael Rosen on FB. Excellent if depressing. Have followed his comments on SPAG most closely.

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filga · 01/02/2018 19:39

My DCs secondary school is running additional lessons for those children who they are worried won't meet their target grades (dfe base their value added on ks2 sats). If they have two children who they feel are borderline for a pass (or a high grade) they are prioritising the one with the higher ks2 sat score for extra support.

Bea · 01/02/2018 19:39

Michael Rosen needs to go and sort them out at the dept of Ed!! Grin

cricketballs3 · 01/02/2018 19:40

as a secondary teacher - they mean nothing; whilst the initial sets are set on SATs scores (for Maths and English in my school), very quickly these are reorganised to suit actual ability.

The biggest impact they have is on their GCSE targets, therefore if they are coached beyond their ability they will generate very high targets which in a lot of cases is unachievable - this leads to demoralised students, stressed subject teachers, panic from secondary SLT

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:42

The school is very high pressure and there's all kinds of nonsense (have posted about this before). Latest is to set up extra classes before and after school. They're currently 3rd in the local league table and Ofsted outstanding. But is all about results.

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Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:45

Bea: absolutely! He just hits the nail on the head and is so passionate about the right things. Why will the Gov not listen?

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clopper · 01/02/2018 19:45

Unfortunately I think the sats are used by many secondary schools to generate a sort of flight path( I think it is known as) which gives target grades across all subjects, throughout key stage 3 and onto gcse. However, I don’t know how getting a level 5 in English or maths translates to then being expected to get high level grades in French, Spanish ,Design and technology and even art. It is crazy. My DS in year 10 is under constant pressure with these aspirational grades across the board. Even though working really hard and getting good results DS attainment is always deemed as ‘below’ or ‘at’ in reports and grades from school and is very demoralised at the moment. So it shouldn’t matter but I think that in some senior schools sats results might matter.

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:49

Maybe I could contact the secondary school and ask. But I don't want to draw too much attention to myself before he's even started. ...

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MerryMarigold · 01/02/2018 19:51

SAT pushing is rubbish for secondary school as they are measured by how much progress children make from sat to gcse. Hot housing sats is not beneficial to children as it can give them unrealistically high gcse grades which they then consistently fail at being on track for. At ds1s school if you are dropping one Fraser below predicted grade, your report turns yellow rather than green. 2 levels below and it's red. Poor kids in y10 and y11 having additional pressure because the secondary don't want to look bad.

Personally I'd let him sit the sats without doing any of the hothousing work and just explain to him that they are really not a big deal. I kept telling my son that they are reading the school not him. Obviously gcses are different, but I don't think ours helpful to look like you're falling before you've even sat them.

MerryMarigold · 01/02/2018 19:53

X post with clopper. Yes our school does the flight path thing. You are allowed to move UP a flight path which is great if you're doing consistently well. However they will not put you down a flight path so I'm quite worried ds is on an unrealistic path as his school really pushed ahs even slightly cheated, according to what he told me.

Butchmanda · 01/02/2018 19:54

I hadn't taken on board that they used them to predict GCSE results. How ridiculous. The curriculum widens out so much - thank god - from Yr 8 and these kids have still to find what they shine at. It's so miserable. Geez

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Cherrycokewinning · 01/02/2018 19:54

The thing is though if the school (via your children) performs badly the whole school suffers doesn’t it? People decide not to send their children there. Staff become harder to recruit because who wants to work in a poorly performing school. It’s not fair but it’s a envitability isn’t it?