to ask how important the SATs are for the CHILD (not the school)

[Butchmanda]

I know SATS are massively important for the school, and it piles ridiculous amounts of pressure on the teachers etc etc. Quite aware of that and I know teachers have a tough job etc etc. Not denying it for a moment.

BUT how important are the Year SATS to the child? Do the results stay on their record forever? Do the secondary schools have to take notice, or is it entirely up to the individual school? (I know that at the school my son is going to, they do tests in English and Maths for streaming after the first half term anyway, and then retest every term).

I'm wondering about the ramifications of taking my son out of the SATs. If it's even possible. I don't want to damage his future but, equally, I would like to make a stand over the current nonsense and spare him the stress (although he would still have to go to school, and therefore would do the work all the same, even if some of it seems to be of dubious use for future). I don't want to use him as a political pawn if it'll affect him but I do feel (as with many other shit things in this country) that it's about bloody time people started taking a stand.

This is not a teacher or school-shaming post, I'd just like some information - not even opinions, just facts from people who might know or have done the same.

Thanks

My dd is also in yr 6, her school are obsessed with SATs. Since September the whole of year 6 has had to be in school 45 minutes early every single day to do extra maths practice. I've refused to send my dd in, I've had everyone from TAs to the headmistress telling me how much the kids love coming in early! And how beneficial it is for them. The actual week of SATs all year 6 has to be in at 8 no excuses, so they can have breakfast together and have a lovely relaxed stressed free start to the day! So either my dd will have to walk to school by herself or I'll have to stand in the playground for 40 minutes with dd2 ( 6) dd3 (2) and a - by then - newborn baby I might just tell them she's got noro virus not send her in that week!

You can't remove your child from the tests ( because the Head of the school has a legal responsibility to ensure that all eligible children sit the tests) , you can however remove your child from the school for the two weeks the tests are timetabled for. You might be fined for it and your child will still have to do all the practice the school goes through before hand but if they are not in school they can't sit them.

DearSergio - utterly bonkers!

You can only remove children from SATS if you deregister from the LA schools.
If they are off ill, they do them when they get back, and you could be fined.

There is a lot of bad press about Sats going on here and some schools clearly put too much pressure on kids.
However if done right I don't see the problem. You are saying here we are roughly half way through your education. The government has given us a list of skills they think are really important to master before second school , and we are going to spend some time checking where we are , with different groups of students working on areas where they are weak. For some students that is going to be much more basic that for others, but provided all kids are improving on areas where they haven't mastered the skills then there is no problem is there?
DearSergio but surely there is another possibility. They know they have a problem with Maths , and they know very few students who go to secondary school with weak maths ever catch up, so they are desperately trying to do something about it. This is no doubt one aspect of a lot of different things they are trying to do. (Although obviously that doesn't account for the whole of Y6 being 'invited'.)

Important for bright kids who want to see how well they can do. Not so important for the kids whose skills lie in different areas.

Dootbal: fine in theory but it doesn't seem to work like that in reality. Have you seen the utter nonsense they test for the SPAG for example? Unfortunately they're not tests set by teachers!

dootball

I totally agree and administered correctly can be part of the information needed to have some idea as to where a child will be if all things stay the same, etc.

One of our dc did his SATS and wasn't even told, the other knew he was doing them, but there was no pressure and certainly no extra homework or booster classes.

Over 40 years ago, we did the same amount of tests as kids do now and they just didn't have a fancy name and were pressure free.

I had tests at end of infants, end of juniors, end of third year secondary and O level /CSE's. no difference at all, tests aren't bad it's the reason and administration that's wrong.

The problem I’m seeing is parents (and I’m talking reception here) are seeing children as numbers, and they are demanding that the school hits the same stats as other academic, high performing schools. But the school my DCs are at isn’t the same as the other schools. It has a much more holistic approach. Nevertheless, the parents want the polite, sparky, well behaved kids, but all at Working Above/Greater Depth. And they start shitting themselves as soon as they get to Reception and causing merry Hell for the HT.

My point is, parents are telling their children SATS don’t matter, and parents are saying to the school SATs are the absolute be-all-and-end-all.

Reducing a child to ‘1.3%’ is pretty despicable IMHO.

But if that’s what parents want ....

Ohforfox: I wonder if it's naivety in parents whose children either haven't started school yet or are only in early years? My views have changed enormously as I've gone through the system with my kids, and also based on stuff I've read in the press.

Yes. We are all different parents now to the parents we were in early years I think (I was the PFB Queen, I hold my hand up to that). I can’t say too much for fear of outing unfortunately, but I have definitely changed my view of SATS, and see them as an (un)necessary evil that we must embrace for the good of the whole school community. It’s enforced, it’s not the choice of the schools, and parents are IMHO, driving it now. It’s a bloody awful catch 22. Schools have to put on the extra classes, make the children work hard, ramp up the pressure so they can meet the targets and perform to high standard, compare with all the other schools locally and nationally, they don’t have much choice but to ramp it up. It’s just not right.

I think the SATS mean that kids miss the best part of a years education just being coached for these exams.
Most secondary school do their own informal assessment of kids,SATS are not a reliable test of ability.

My eldest (now 20) had all the pressure for sats. When she went to secondary school they redid all the tests to put then into sets as they didn't hold put much faith in the sats as they are coached so heavily to pass the actual sats it doesn't actually give a true reflection of their ability.

My dc’s school is second in the county for SATs. My Y6 hasn’t mentioned them yet. The school keep it low key and I know from last year that SATs week is just a totally normal week for the Y6. My dc wouldn’t be bothered by a few pieces of work done in silence over the course of a few days. I think a lot of SATs hysteria comes from parents, and it’s even worse when the Y2 kids are aware of SATs, because their parents are winding them up about it.

Secondary schools have to have some system for pupils with no SATs results, because some pupils will come in from other countries or the Independent sector.

However, as PP have said it's becoming increasingly difficult to withdraw because they have extended the length of time when pupils can sit them when they return to school. Being off during SATs week also doesn't mean you miss the ridiculous year of SATs frenzy. If DS was in the state sector I'd be very tempted to home-school for Y6 (I say this as a primary school teacher).

I felt Y6 was all about SATs rather than ‘proper’ education - ie training them for the test rather than enjoying learning.

I find that due to the focus on sats in y6, pupils arriving in y7 are increasingly de-skilled as they have had so little focus on everything else. Y6 should be about preparing them for secondary school e.g sitting in a chair for an hour without getting up and wandering round, learning how to write in pen at a faster rate, learning that when you get to the end of the page you turn over (and you don't need to ask the teacher about this), learning that you go to the toilet between lessons, independent learning etc etc. Pupils who have these skills do better at secondary as they are more prepared for what secondary requires of them. I find it interesting that all secondary teachers as part of their training have to spend a few days observing in primary schools, yet primary school teaching does not require observation in secondary school. I also think that primary schools would have a different approach to sats if the primary schools were rated on their pupils' subsequent GCSE performance ....

I think a lot of SATs hysteria comes from parents

That's because your DC are at a school that does them in a sensible and calm manner. SATs year nearly broke my younger daughter because her school was in a state of blind panic and piled the pressure on like nobody's business. We spent the whole year trying to help her stay calm, but there was nothing we could do about the ridiculous approach being taken by her totally unsympathetic school.

It was tragic, because her older sister was in year 6 at the same school three years earlier and had a very positive experience. Once teacher (who happened to be the deputy head) ruined an entire year's education for her, for no benefit whatsoever that I can see.

It definitely comes from the school.

Lowdoor, exactly! The whole year is about SATs so out actually feels unfair to withdraw a child at the end of it. It's a collective experience. I also didn't feel it was fair on the teachers who were put under pressure by the head assigns extremely hard. It really is an issue for school leadership, head, SLT and governors what attitude they want to have.

I thought the year 6 stats were used to get a snap shot of this age group and help the education department plan for their high school needs?

Will they go on their record forever?

There is no such thing as a centralised school records system. Each school records information about a child as they wish to. If you move schools, they may provide some info to the new school of requested but even this is not certain. Transfers happen all the time with no information at all and even when it is, it can be weeks after the child arrives.

There is no print out of every detention, merit award, sats results, sporting badge or attendance awards at 18 for presentation to future employers. None of it matters really beyond making a kid feel good at the time.

All that matters at 16 or 18 are GCSE results and a level results. Even UCAS references from schools are pretty bland and similar from one candidate to the next so aren't of great importance for applications- they just explain expected grades and any extenuating factors (illness, family problems etc).

So don't get worked up at sats results. May as well sit them and see what the child gets so you have some independent assessment of it though

We have been told by our school that children are not allowed to be off in SATS week, they have prep and pre-assessments from now until the SATS and afternoons that were dedicated to ICT or project work or music or PE are now being given over to extra English and Maths tuition.

And then once the SATS are over, they do absolutely bugger all work for the rest of the year.

The whole system is a nonsense

My children are odd-dd enjoyed her SATS year and ds, who has behavioural problems, has been transformed by it. I have never seen him happier and have not been called in once this term. I think they enjoy the structured nature of it, the clear success and failure and the fact that some of it is just damn hard.
Am I the ONLY person in the entire country on Mumsnet in that position?!

SATs do seem to stay on their record forever in secondary school. My DD didn't do very well in year 6 and all through secondary they used the SATs as a benchmark, even though she is predicted to get 6 and 7s in her GCSEs this summer.
It still annoys her that her 'failure' in primary is haunting her still. I hope that a good result in the exams will boost her confidence.