AIBU or is my mother acting like a child?

[Enigmasaurus]

Long story so apologise for length.

I am the second of four siblings, my parents are divorced but on reasonably good terms now.

My mother has always been a difficult personality, and often has a little strop if things don’t go her way. There are a couple of occasions I recall where she has stopped talking to me or ignored me for a few days or weeks. Usually because I’ve done something she disagrees with or ‘disobeyed’ her. When she starts communicating again, it’s when she wants to (on her terms).

My maternal grandmother has been unwell recently and there have been lots of disagreements between my mother and her brother (my uncle) about how best to manage her. There have been many heated arguments and some unpleasant things said on both sides, culminating in them being NC for around 6 months now.

I am in my late thirties, married with 3 kids and live independently from my mother and siblings (and am financially stable). Due to her argument with her brother, my mother forbade any of us children from speaking to him, his wife or his children (my cousins). For various reasons I have had to have some contact but it’s been limited and she has been aware of it. Can’t say she was very happy.

A few weeks ago, he contacted me to say he had Christmas presents for my children. I suggested he drop them round. He came with the family (first contact for 6 months) and a lovely time was had by all. Somehow, my mother found out about this. She called me but didn’t ask me about it directly. Instead, she was more sullen during the conversation and spent most of the call interrogating my 4 year old, trying to get him to reveal some incriminating evidence.

Since that day she hasn’t spoken to me at all. Will not return messages or take calls. I have had the same treatment from my siblings and wider family. It makes me really sad as it’s DC2’s birthday tomorrow and I’ve had to cancel my original plans for a celebration as there wont be enough people. We’re having a small party at home instead.

I’m pretty sure this is not normal behaviour from a woman who is in her 60s, but having grwon up with it sort of skews your normality somewhat. Right now I have given up trying to make contact, told her she know where I am if she actually wants to talk and that I feel it’s really sad that she is taking this out on my child. I am flitting between feeling really sad and really quite angry. If she calls tomorrow to speak to my child I will not be answering the call. Does that make me as bad as her? My husband would happily cut her out completely over this but I feel a bit torn. Don’t really know what to do next.

Apologies for incoherent ramblings and thank you if you’ve read until the end.

Thank you for all the kind word. I completely understand what all you lovely people are saying. But S0upertrooper is right - it’s so hard to cut contact even though it’s probably the right thing to do. Years of this kind of thing have probably conditioned me into thinking this way and it’s hard to look at it objectively sometimes. I flit between tears and anger.

Gide my sister spent £6.50 sending a present in the post which DC hasn’t actually opened yet. She lives an hour away.

Uplighter thanks for the birthday wishes - we actually have more than we know what to do with right now. I think i’ll be eating it for a week

Your mum won’t treat you as an adult as she doesn’t even see you as a person. She sees you as an extension of herself and therefore to her it’s entirely reasonable and normal for you to bear her grudges and follow her orders.

This isn’t normal, and now it’s having an impact on your DC.

People like this can’t be reasoned with. You can’t ask them to see another viewpoint as they’re completely unwilling to. The only thing you can do is protect yourself, and generally that means going NC, at least for long enough to set some boundaries and learn how to manage the ridiculous demands and behaviour. In this time I’d suggest getting some counselling or reading books like Why You and Your Mother Can’t Be Friends or similar to try to understand her behaviour and allow yourself to grieve for the mother you should have had. You may be able to have contact once you’ve processed everything, you may not, but you must keep you and your children safe.

My mother had a big fall out with my uncle in 2010, and then insisted on bad mouthing him to me at every opportunity, despite knowing I had a strong relationship with him. She did the same about my father, even though he never said a bad word about her in my hearing. She continued to do so on the day of his funeral (which I regret allowing her to attend). I asked her to stop but she wouldn't.

Fast forward to last year, she died after a few years of dementia. The thing I struggle with most is that I missed the chance to look her in the eye and tell her that her behaviour was unacceptable, and was the reason I limited her contact with her DGDs. Maybe she'd have fixed it, maybe she wouldn't. But I should have told her straight, so she could reflect on the consequences of her own actions and perhaps attempt to address them, if she wanted to.

BTW I still have a great relationship with my uncle

What the other respondents have written, particularly SwearyG, SugarPlum and Aquamarine. Please take heed.

She has certainly trained you well and from a very young age to serve her; your feelings do not come into her orbit at all. She does see you as an extension of her.

What if anything do you know about her own family of origin, that would give you clues as well. Pound to a penny her own parents were toxic as well; this sort of familial dysfunction can and does go down the generations. You have been profoundly affected by your mother's actions and now a second generation, your kids, are also in her firing line. Protect them and you from her malign influences.

You will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Your mother is certainly disordered of thinking and is likely to be a narcissist. Your own boundaries as a result are well skewed. Some sessions with a therapist and one who has no family bias about keeping families together despite mistreatment would be a good option for you as well. Interview such people carefully beforehand, you need to find someone who fits in with your approach.

I would also suggest that you post on the long standing " Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on the Relationships pages as this could help you as well, there are some resources at the start of that thread too that are worth reading.

She’s still my kids’ grandmother and I’d hate to take that away for the sake of a stupid argument.
And how will your feel when she starts doing to your children what she has done to you? She's already started by hounding your four year old, how is she going to punish your child? By not sending them a birthday present? By not speaking to them? Are you going to allow that to continue?
My mother was similar, she started trying to turn twin dc against one another (she likes to divide and rule). At that point I went NC. It's been a bloody wonderful few years. Nobody, but nobody gets to mess my children about.

She is a game playing emotions toddler - but it’s Not that uncommon especially in women of her generation.

It sounds like you’ve done the right thing. Just treat her like a toddler - some distance, you’re the grown up, set boundaries.

Happy Birthday to your DC. Hope you all enjoy the cake.

If your mother doesn't get in contact, don't chase her. Just leave her to herself while you celebrate x

My husband’s mother is like this. She fell out with her sister over a trivial matter, then demanded that my husband cut them off too and not go to his cousin’s wedding. He said he was going to go and she wrote him a disgusting email about how he should take her side because he’s her son and that she was “disowning and disinheriting him”. It’s been 15 years. She wasn’t invited to our wedding. She’s reached out twice (no apology, just an “I need you” message). During that time he realised that he much prefers not being in contact and is happily living guilt free about it.

I’m so sorry OP that you don’t have the mother you deserve. Can you enjoy the silence as a blessed relief rather than a punishment?

She unfortunately sounds like my grandmother. My poor mum has a dogs life with her. My man doesn't talk to me or acknowledge me or my father ( my mums husband of 40 years!) she's a bitter jealous woman who believes herself to be better than everyone else. Deeply unhappy and can't see it's her own doing.
I've been furious with my mother over the years for not cutting contact with her. Your children are better off without her. As a pp said she'll only hurt them when they don't tow the line.

Life doesn't have to include cousins etc. My DCs did see one set of cousins but tbh they are grown up and have nothing to do with them now - just gone different ways. Many people have none.
I would look to form your own family friends and not rely on rellies.

Ageing parents is a very difficult time - lots of guilt, and stress, and worse if siblings can't agree care, so it sounds as if DM's stress and anger over this is being directed at you as uncle is now out of her picture. If this is the case it's nothing you can fix. Better to stay away.

Ignore your mum’s behaviour. The job to do here is to make sure granny get looks after.

I think you're doing the right thing, you don't want someone like that around your DC. Sad as it is & whatever the reason - your mum is a manipulative bitch.
One thing I'm wondering is whethrr she is going through the menopause- this can be pretty hard on someone's mental health especially if they're a bit fragile that way anyway.
But even if she is, she's an adult & has to take responsibility for herself & her actions.

She sounds just like my MIL she's a complete bitch too, she loves to split everyone away from family members who have 'hurt' 'mistreated' or 'not supported' her. Ugh. You are better off without, if your DC have another set of GP that's enough, they don't need all this drama.
And, I would write an open letter to your family just highlighting you are happy to have contact etc, make it clear you're not going to get involved in taking sides etc.
Families....

Stringandglitter
Your MIL sounds just like mine! Our DH's aren't related are they lol!

I have similar behaviors with my parents. I maintain a distance, 'normal' is one telephone conversation per week. I feel that this routine keeps me in control without feeling guilty about NC which could have happened on occasions in the past.

My own view is that life is too short to be NC. I try and think about my parents background and know that their own upbringing doesn't give them to skills to deal with relationships. They seem to have a very immature response to conflict or any decision making. Often they will make decisions that are illogical and sometimes hurtful, often the easy way out, but I try to work with them, thinking of it as a way to educate them and to model how they should behave. I also point out where their behavior is unacceptable.

In your situation I would meet with your other family members and talk this through. Don't let your mum cause issues with everyone else. Be brave and take control. Being able to continue these relationships will take control from your mum.

Meet your mum (unexpectedly). What would she do if you turned up at her house to talk. If not write. What do you want, how do you see this moving on, explain what you are prepared to accept. Tell her, (if that is what you want), that her behavior is unacceptable and that you are not going to accept NC. Can your siblings/family members help you?

It is a tough road, but for me, it does maintain some contact.

Her behaviour is unacceptable and you're doing the right thing by refusing to let her affect your DCs.

My mother was like this, but once I had DS I realised just what a shit mother she was.

If you want the relationship to continue then you do need to stand up to her. Scary at the time, but mine now regulates her behaviour and is a good GM to my DS. But I had to make it clear she would not see him if her behaviour didn't improve.

I'm afraid it sounds very much like your Mother is a toxic narcissist. The rest of your family who have ceased speaking to you on your Mothers say so are flying monkeys. I bet you have grown up with a golden child/ scapegoat situation, meaning that you don't actually have a great bond with your siblings. Please consider reading the books below. It is so much healthier for both your DC and you to be NC. This is, of course, your call to make.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0232529299/ref=pd_luc_rh_bxgy_01_04_t_img_lh?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforum-21

www.amazon.co.uk/Dear-Daughter-Narcissistic-Mother-letters/dp/023253277X/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforum-21&refRID=FG31992X7H07H77BW147

www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826/ref=pd_sim_14_6?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforum-21&refRID=2XJK8G3NEJ4180PE1FJE

Chocolate50.

H is an only child so probably not. Scary to think there’s more than one crazy out there.

Sorry am just catching up at work. Thank you all the words of support and the links - I’ll take a look.

I have effectively gone NC - enforced by her as she wont actually talk to me anyway. Normally she comes round and gets back in touch when it suits her. This time I feel I should take a stand and be less forgiving. Though I doubt she’ll even understand why i’m angry!

Your siblings sound quite spineless. Well done for being your own person. I would match their behaviour (i.e. with cards, presents etc).

Are you close to your cousins?

Practice a few responses for whenshe decides she wants contact again:
"That doesn't work for us"
"Asked and answered"
"I will contact you when I have had sufficient space to consider what a healthy relationship with you might look like moving forward"
"We arefine withthe level of contact we've recently had (however long she ignored you for)
"I'll have to check and get back to you on that" (don't agree to anything if you get cornered).

If she changes tactics and starts hassling you, Don't respond immediately when she does try to contact you. Leave gaps, say you are busy raising YOUR family, start leaving bigger gaps between contact, be to busy to host, do visits (if you must) somewhere public where kids have an activity/distraction etc.
And when she gets nasty end your visit "you're obviously too emotional to be around the kids. This visit is over, take as long as you need to sort yourself out because this behaviour isn't ok around me or the kids"

I wish you well OP, grieve the mother you should have had, this woman isn't it, please don't cling to the relationship in the hope she'll change.

It’s one thing her being a childish, nasty cunt with you.

It’s quite another her being a childish, nasty cunt with your dc.

SugarPlumLairy thank you for your sensible practical advice. I will definitely be less receptive to a brush under the carpet approach than previously.

babyccinoo not especially close, no. But they live a couple of hours away and we all get on well when we do meet up.

Enigmasaurus, I know it's not easy, I've been there. My own mother is CO from us.. I was very much the scapegoat to her and when my DD arrived I realised my mothers attitude/behaviour was slowly and surely ramping up to treatmy DD exactly the same way she'd treated me as a child. What I couldn't do for myself - remove myself from the toxicity - I found I absolutely could do for my child.

Our lives are healthier, happier, less stressful, our relationships with family easier to manage. My DD doesn't miss her grandmother.
Honestly, it's so much better than living with the rugsweeping.

Good luck lovely 👍

My mother is like this she didn't see my kids for a year had NC it was brilliant didn't have to put up with the behaviour but when I did see her a was pregnant vi told her straight we do not get on that is fine I accept that but my kids did nothing to u u either make an effort or u will not be welcome at hospital to see new baby it took her month but she made an effort with kids only and then wla very difficult laboure and baby nearly died it jolted her into reality and she visited me but I keep her at arms length as I said to her I need to accept I'm not going to get what I'm looking for so I'm not going to anymore as u aren't get on with ure life and stop trying to please and do as ure told these people have no maternal feelings so they don't care but she will need u in years to come to look after her I would leave her in nursing home and not look back as she doesn't deserve urd love and affection u need to accept this yes it hurts but u have made a new family for ureselfs and that comes first x

The relationship you have with her and she with you and the kids is of her making and on her terms. Missing out on her grandkids and her daughter will hopefully overwhelm her feelings of being unsupported.
Make it clear to all the family that their arguments and fallings out are not your arguments and you will not be taking sides just because you are told to.
I bet the others are jealous you have made a stand cos they don't have the balls to. Shame. If everyone stopped cowtowing she would probably stop.
Try not to dwell too much. Remember she has chosen to behave like this.