Gender neutral toilets in Primary School

[Nanodust]

So a recent visit to a new school that has opened also included confirmation that it will be the last Primary School to have gender segregated toilets.

All new Primary schools in the area will be ‘unisex’ (gender neutral) as described by Head.

Thoughts on this? I’m not against gender neutral toilets, I am indifferent as a toilet is a toilet. However for younger kids it’s sometimes the only place to get some headspace etc. I wonder how it will all go....

But boys loos stink! Girls shouldn't have to put up with that. Come on, anyone who went to a mixed school knows: boys make loos smell very bad. And it gets no better when they are men...

I've finally met like minded people! They're about to start building a new primary school local to us and there's been a lot of debate about mixed toilets. I don't think it matters in terms of privacy that both genders will share - tbh I don't think any of my kids know what modesty is anyway! But the idea of one of my daughters stepping and sitting in wee... It's bad enough at home where the boys have their mother on their case when they miss but in school, where they'll never get into trouble, no one will ever know and they're in a hurry to get back out to the playground... I can just imagine it and I hate to think of my daughter having to face that. It's just horrible and I strongly object on those grounds alone.

Not good - for a start boys piss allover seats and floors.

Worse - Cubicles completely enclosed are dangerous when small children lock themselves in and for older children, bullying assaults etc, no means of checking on children.

Whose to say that over time how society views this won't change.

The views of society aren't the problem though. The problem is that too many women have been sexually assaulted or harassed in some way by men and don't want to feel even more vulnerable than they likely do already.

I don't care that much about the toilet issue if its toilets like in Costa or Starbucks - a lockable room with loo and sink.

And the tampon issue? Probably more of an issue in schools, as teenage girls can be easily embarrassed about that sort of thing and the boys can be idiots. For adults, I'd hope everyone can be an adult about it, but some can still be idiots. And even those of us who aren't generally embarrassed, if I'd flooded and ended up a bit of a mess, potentially having a man in there would be a bit worse than just having a woman.

In reception and year 1-3 I think unisex loos are fine and its easier for staff to supervise them with hand washing and such if needed.

In my primary school reception had their own shared unisex loos. Open plan and easy to supervise within the classroom itself.

As we moved up year groups we had segregated toilets but with a large shared sink space for years 1-3 - again easy for staff to monitor several children going into the loo but still separate and private. in years 4-6 we had our own loos and sinks per sex because some girls started their periods and such.

Shared sinks for both boys and girls are a nightmare once puberty hits. Especially for girls dealing with periods. Even now I get blood on my hands changing pads or tampons. Sex segregation is there for a reason and to dismiss the need is bloody stupid.

It's easy to make sure a 3 year old boy pees straight into a toilet at home but get a few mischievious 8 year old boys in a school toilet and peeing anywhere but the toilet become huge prank.

A lot of girls start their periods in primary school, I think mixed toilets might make them feel quite uncomfortable

@Toffeelatteplease girls and women are wrong/old fashioned if they are embarrassed about menstruation in front of men?

Pancake, so what is taking away men's spaces? If taking a woman's is mysoginistic?

I would have hated mixed loos as a child. Why does this gender/sex privacy have to be removed for them. It seems unnecessary.

Jax, you really too hard of thinking to see the difference between protective separation, and privileged exclusionary separation?
If you are I can't help you...

hospital wards,
Children’s wards are not segregated. If Kids can be in hospital together I can’t see why they can’t share toilets in a school. It actually makes a lot of sense from a design point of view to have one big block rather than two split ones.

DD's school have mixed toilets in the infants block (reception - Year 2). The cubicle doors are about 5 foot, so too high for children to see over but short enough for an adult to help if they got locked in. The sinks are in an open area.

The junior block has separate toilets. IIRC they use their toilets as changing rooms too.

gender (or sex however you prefer to term it).

Gender and sex are two completely different things. I’m amazed there are people who still don’t get this.

Children’s wards are not segregated. If Kids can be in hospital together I can’t see why they can’t share toilets in a school I spent 4 months in hospital at the age of 10. Yes, the ward wasn't segregated, and I was happy being in the same room as the boys, but I wouldn't have wanted to share a toilet with them. The hospital ward toilets were individual, not in blocks like at school.

Who on earth is taking away men's spaces???

I can only imagine that gender neutral toilets will grind to a halt when men realise they're suddenly having to wait in the same massive queue as women at events.

Individual cubicles with bins/sinks etc and floor to ceiling walls/door, yes.

Anything else, no.

Two things stand out to me when I think about primary school toilets. 1. Babysitting for a girl who started her periods aged 8 and trying to reassure her through her tears.

1. Attending multiple primary schools due to my father's job (military) and hiding from various boys in them none of whom had particularly good intentions.

I've managed to get blood on the floor of a public toilet before, doing that at school with a gap under the door/no sink in the cubicle would be mortifying.

Primary school should be okay. Secondary perhaps not so much. I remember when I was about 17 in my first job in a restaurant having to get changed in a staff room in front of both males and females. As long as things don't get to that stage!

Our infant toilets are mixed, juniors are sex-segregated. I can’t imagine where we’d find the funds to refurbish all the junior toilet blocks.

Our school has segregated (by sex) toilets from key stage 2 (juniors), which is good.

It is not just girls embarrassed by toileting at times, boys can be too.

Fully enclosed toilets with sink and bin opening onto a corridor are fine too, IMHO, as well but better for university/high school than primary.

Girls and women need to pee in privacy and safety because boys and men are usually bigger and stronger than they are.

And from quite a young age are increasingly interested in girls in a sexualized way.

Taking away freedom to pee, pop and change a sanitary pad in peace is giving girls less freedom.

It doesn't matter so much if middle aged women like me are worried or not worried about a tampon being seen, we will have more choices. Girls are at school for aboute a decade and half of that time will be on a menstrak cycle. How do ten or 11 year old girls feel about the topic?

I wonder if any school designers care a fucking fig what these girls feel!

Menstrual cycle.

And if anyone thinks they’re going to make the staff toilets mixed-sex, they can fuck right off with that idea.

Plus i think all schools should have some fully enclosed unisex 'disability access' style toilets for absolutely anyone who needs them.

My 5yo dd's school toilets are mixed and I wish they weren't. This week one boy showed her his willy and another punched her in the tummy. Both incidents happened in the toilets...

My office is three metres from the infant toilets. The shenanigans that go on in there would need a whole thread to describe. And don’t get me started on the smell that wafts into my office.