to wonder how you live with yourself if you work in a JobCentre?

[stinky81]

Really, just that. Sanctioning people for whatever reason you can think of to meet your targets. Expecting people to attend twenty minutes early for appointments then being forty minutes late seeing them. 'Signposting' people to foodbanks whilst refusing to acknowledge that you're referring people there because the state has failed them.
I understand that people need to earn a living, but to do that off the back of people more vulnerable than yourself? Sounds like bullying to me.
I don't claim benefits, and hopefully never will.

My DH worked at the Job Center at one time, about 16 years ago. He was on the Payments Desk dealing with people who had been sanctioned or had issues with their money. He did it for six months and it literally broke him. He said that while there were some lovely, genuine people who had fallen on hard times, most were appallingly rude, violent and entitled, feeling that it was their right to attack the staff, shout abuse, spit at them etc every hour of every day. He quit after one person followed him home and threatened him on our doorstep. We had to move. It was an awful time and even now, all these years later, he has anxiety around strangers. This, a man who grew up on the roughest council estate in our town. He ended up in counselling to deal with the abuse he put up with at work. His opinion is that the Job Center staff are short with people, threaten sanctions etc because they are so frustrated with being abused and put down that they no longer really care. This is probably a generalisation, but the impression he has.

psychomath it seems to vary massively across the country. I am pleased to hear others have had massively different experiences to my own. I could write a book on the terrible incidences at my job center. Maybe thats why mine closed down. I watched 2 incidents of 2 different men berated for being late for their interviews. One was in hospital all night with his baby with meningitis the other had his house robbed. The hospital man was made to take a bus across town to plead his case at the other job center and the house robbed man was made to get his crime number and show proof of his house being robbed. I also got a snotty phonecall once for being late when i wasn't and she begrudgingly admitted i was right my appointment had been changed twice by the jc.

psychomath my apologies to you (and to the poster who supplied the link) it was right at the end of the article but I now wonder having read it again did he just inform them of the clash or did he get permission from them to attend (just as a worker would have to get permission from their employer) If they really did call him a liar then that's disgraceful

To people saying its a job, where do you draw the line? When does morality/consciousness come into play? Can you justify doing any job because you need the money? I'm not aiming this at JC staff BTW just musing.

There are some I certainly wouldn’t relish doing but as long as a job was legal, I’d do it. I put being able to provide for the people I brought into this world and who depend on me above anything else.

The hospital man was made to take a bus across town to plead his case at the other job center and the house robbed man was made to get his crime number and show proof of his house being robbed

I would really hope that hospital man was treated kindly but I'm not suprised house robbed man was asked to provide proof. If not then it would be too easy to abuse the system by claimants.

I don't understand the hate towards job centre staff. The system is failing yes - but does anyone seriously think it's the people who work in the JCPs 5 days a week, who make the big policy decisions? Like any job, they've got policies and procedures in place and have to follow them. Just like anything else - I work at Tesco atm and there's certain policies I have to follow that I don't like. It's life. And working in a job centre isn't bad money, from what I've seen advertised etc. I'm sure job centre staff have a hard enough time without this kind of guff.

Also let's remember that you only hear one side of the story in any form of media, be it newspaper, telly, facebook etc. Journalists will frame things in a way most likely to cause outrage - 'claimant left without money for a month and with two kids to support' sounds much better than 'claimant who had been warned three times gets a sanction' doesn't it (hypothetical scenario)

And I've been on the other side of the desk. I've had one advisor who I really didn't get on with. Who talked down to me, made me apply to jobs I wasn't suitable for, sent me on courses which gave wonderful advice such as 'don't wear jeans to interviews'. That was only one advisor. My first advisor (who went on ML) I got on really well with. I still see her occasionally in slimming club with her new baby and we have a chat. The advisors in between the first and last (I did get swapped round a bit I admit - mostly temp staff from other centres) I got on with. My point is that out of say 6 advisors, only 1 I didn't get on with. You simply aren't able to say that all jobcentre advisors should be ashamed because they shouldn't - some (most) do a good job.

Also, the 'vulnerable'. Yes lots of people are vulnerable. Lots of people are on jobseekers who should be on PIP (for eg) instead. Most are looking for work, trying desperately and their self esteem has taken a nose dive. But not everyone. A small minority are challenging to say the least. Why do you think they have security in the buildings now? I've seen other people shout at the workers, swear, storm out, come in slurring etc and I don't think anyone should have to work in that environment.

"Lots of people are on jobseekers who should be on PIP (for eg) instead. Most are looking for work, trying desperately and their self esteem has taken a nose dive"

PIP is NOT NOT NOT an out of work benefit. Neither is/was DLA.

Think about the flip side of this though-I work in tenancy sustainment. I frequently get referred cases that are about to be evicted for rent arrears etc. When I unpick what's happened there is nearly always a missed benefit application here, or a missed appointment there...and then outrage that benefits have been stopped as a result. There is a system in place (albeit a complex one) that often claimants fail to follow and then the people that get it in the neck are the staff at the job centre-whose fault it definitely isnt.
And for all the horror stories I've heard and seen re horrible PIP assessors I've also seen kind and compassionate ones that will take in all aspects of someone's situation to try and get them as much income as possible.
There is very little money now-and that isn't the job centre staffs fault either...

Ah - one of those where the OP arrives, goads, fucks off again.

Some people have bleeding tragic lives, don’t they?

I have no idea how the ones with empathy and a conscience manage these days. I hope for their sales that most of them have left already, when they were offered early release as part of civil service job cuts.

There were always a few self-righteous demons at the job centre, but I wonder if that's a prerequisite coping mechanism nowadays.

I do feel massively sorry for people who find themselves in a shitty situation and left with no money, I’ve been there and when I was being abused by clients etc I always thought to my times of need to keep a cool head.
However (controversial statement coming) the majority of times a clients benefits were stopped were due to them not being proactive, not informing us of a change of circs or similar. In my years of working in benefits I can remember two cases of people who’s money was stopped when it shouldn’t have been, and as soon as it was bought to my attention I rectified it and made an emergancy payment there and then. Im not saying it’s the same everywhere but that was my experiance.
When it’s 4 o clock and you’ve dealt with 25 people, been spat at, sworn at, threatened etc all for minimum wage and someone comes to your desk who’s not bothered to tell us of a change of circs and is going off on one about their money being stopped - yes I’ve probably been short with people in those situations. Yes, it makes you bitter when you’ve dealt with people who have no intention of working but you’ve dragged yourself out of bed to go and be abused by them and still your accounts in the red BUT there’s also been times where I’ve sat with people past closing times to help them, contacted organisations to help them with mental health, sorted their Housing, listened to them cry, fill in applications with them for unrelated things etc all beyond my job role to help someone who needs it.
The OP of this thread has upset me as I spent years feeling like a scapegoat that was treated appaulingly by clients but held onto the fact that I was helping people who really needed it and hopefully made some people’s lives that bit easier, to be made out to be a monster from that... well it pretty much sums up my time working for the public and sadly I’m not surprised really.

But let’s face it it was a shit opinion

Perhaps try doing the job before passing judgement. Whenever I have been unemployed the staff have always been helpful.

Iworry the impression I get is that the situation is much, much worse than it was a couple of years ago.

I'm not sure that DWP staff are able to offer the kind of support you gave.

Like in all jobs, there are good ones and bad ones. I went straight from education to benefits office at 16 and it was tough. However, I learned about "the system", people, working with those that did and did not give a dawn and it was the basis and grounding for where I am today.
I was abused, threatened, shouted at, had things thrown at me, separated fights, saw terrible poverty, saw spongers getting loads of money and smirking in my face after parking their works van outside my office window and stripping off their overalls before signing on. I also saw and received (from claimants) kindness, generosity, understanding, protection, encouragement, hope, determination, and saw some bad people meet their just desserts.
It is a job. It is not terribly rewarding from a financial aspect but you do learn a lot about life and people.

Really, being late is hardly the end of the worls. Appointments everywhere (gp, dentist etc) often run late. It doesn't make them terrible people.

I meant to add that what you do with that experience is down to you. You can ignore that lesson or learn from it. Try to help a refugee trying to find a better life for his displaced family or lord it over them because your life is better. I saw staff that did both. It was a big wake up call when they found themselves in the other side of the counter after mass redundancy.

I had experience of the job centre last year and the staff were lovely, I had to go from ESA to JSA and my circs were extremely difficult for the system to deal with but the staff I dealt with were fab. One organised a food parcel to be delivered when the system hadn't allowed my payment through. When I got my job my advisor was so happy, they are human at the end of the day.

I have the utmost respect for those who work there, it's a difficult job to do. Even the security guards were lovely and I couldn't thank them all enough at my final interview!

I spent 8 years working in the job centre and benefit offices when I left school.

I met some fantastic staff, who had lots of empathy and understanding but who were paid (not very well) to follow government rules. I only met one member of staff in all those years who was a total bitch.

I also met some fantastic claimants who I helped with CV's, careers advice and interview techniques. I, like others, was abused, sworn at, spat at and threatened on a regular basis. I met people who put lots of effort into job hunting and on the odd occasion, I broke the rules to help them. I also met people who were fiddling the system by working and claiming and people who were happy to stay on benefits and couldn't be arsed to get a job.

Had one bloke who came in for a replacement giro and was really abusive. The post office had him on video cashing the original giro he said he lost and he got even more abusive. He was waiting for me outside work at 5.30 and we had to phone the police. I was only 19 at the time!

Don't judge until you have walked in someone else's shoes. I did my best for those people who wanted my help (and lots that didn't).

I called those years of working there my 'University of life'. Great experience, but not a job I would like now.

I've not read the full thread but my opinion on it is if the staff feel the policy is too strict I don't understand why they don't band together and go against policy? If most of the staff believe that the sanctions and targets are too hard then they should stand up against it.

If they all worked together by not carrying out sanctions then the government can't sack the lot of them. Getting a whole new staff group who wouldn't know how the job works would cripple government.
Same with the PIP assessors.
It's not fighting against immoral policies like this is how Hitler started. People turning a blind eye to the suffering they were beginning to cause way before the gas chambers came about.

Oldsu no worries, it's easy to overlook details in long articles

Martha, how long ago was it that you claimed? I only ask because when I was at the job centre they mentioned having changed the system in the last couple of years to be more about helping people get back to work long term, rather than constantly threatening sanctions etc. But I wasn't in the old system so can't say whether that's why my experience was better - maybe I just got lucky with my advisor. It's definitely not all standardised across centres either - I know mine put on mandatory induction sessions that others didn't, for example.

I don't understand why they don't band together and go against policy

Because they’d likely get disciplined and ultimately sacked? Not difficult to understand surely?

How is it the state's fault that people don't want jobs?

Whatshallidonowpeople, i think you've been hanging about with the DM and C5 for too long

How is it the state's fault that people don't want jobs?

I bet you describe yourself as Down to Earth and that people must take you as they find you.