to retrain as a teacher, when I don't want to teach? If IABU, what else could I do?

[BuddyToBhaskar]

Because my only other career options, it seems, are in admin or care work - or possibly in "taking in ironing" (whatever the that means). I have a PhD in the social sciences-humanities interface, oodles of work experience and a neat handful of publications, but I cannotcannotcannot get a postdoc. I'm also the other side of 40 with numerous kiddies and am tied to an economically crappy area of the country by family. I need a professional or a skill which will tide me through to retirement.

Is teaching really that bad? What other options might I have?

Not only is it hard, but training is intense and even those who really what to teach struggle to get through it. So with no motivation? No. Not at all. The only reason teachers do it is because they like teaching kids.

Also, kids really really deserve strong teachers. It's not fair on them for you to teach if you don't get that it's a privilege.

A PhD is a completely irrelevant qualification for school teaching. A PGCE can be a really useful one, even if you work in a school where no teaching qualification is required.

There are actually plenty of private schools where they really like hiring 'Drs', because of the prestige/showing off to parents. There's nowhere that it's a requirement, of course, but it's silly to say that it won't help OP under any circumstances.

When DH became a teacher it was a career change in his early 30s and he wasn't 100% sure about it - and had a real wobble when he arrived at his PGCE and it was full of 21 year olds convinced teaching was their dream. Five years on he's still teaching, loves his job (well, most of the time) and has consistently received excellent feedback and results. A lot of the more starry-eyed ones didn't make it through their NQT year. I think he was more enthusiastic about teaching than you sound, OP, but he's definitely of the opinion that seeing it as a job not an all-consuming identity/calling, and being pragmatic about being able to see both its advantages and disadvantages compared to other careers (something the 21 year olds couldn't really do) are not bad things.

Sorry OP but I have read and re-read your post and it comes across as " I have a phd don't you know and the world owes me a decent job" it doesn't. Firstly look at why you cant get a post doc. ask someone to review your CV and see if it can be amended or improved. look at the jobs that you are applying for. do you really have the skill and experience for that level or would you be better off applying for something either down or up a level.

you say you have work experience but nothing about having had a paid job? have you ever had paid employment? if so go back and revisit the skills you used for that.

you don't have to take in ironing or become a care worker. what you need to do is take a spoonful of realism. all jobs start at the bottom and work up. no one slots into the middle just because they have a phd. so what you need to do is work out what you do have a passion for and look for opportunities at the right level in your area.

don't teach. my kids both have a teacher like you and they know it and it sucks.

be realistic. how many hours can you do with so many children? how will you manage school holidays? if you really want to give teaching a go, volunteer for a term as a teaching assistant - unpaid - at your local school for a term and see if it sparks your enthusiasm.

Firstly look at why you cant get a post doc. ask someone to review your CV and see if it can be amended or improved. look at the jobs that you are applying for. do you really have the skill and experience for that level or would you be better off applying for something either down or up a level.

You're not an academic, are you? Which is fine, but it's not very helpful to the OP to give advice on something incredibly sector-specific with no understanding of that sector.

"Firstly look at why you cant get a post doc. ask someone to review your CV and see if it can be amended or improved. look at the jobs that you are applying for. "

RTFT.

I didn't say that it wouldn't help the OP to get a job. I said that it is irrelevant in teaching, in that it does not help you at all to develop the skills and knowledge of school teaching. That is not "silly".

There are plenty of state schools that like hiring PhDs too. And plenty of parents that think it matters. In my last, rather nice, comprehensive I used to get asked several times every Open Evening how many Science teachers had PhDs. A lot, was the answer. Nearly half of them.

You certainly made it sound useless - and while the PhD itself might not help with school teaching, experience of teaching as part of further study (OP says she's lectured, and I guess that means she'll also have done other types of teaching like lecturing) is helpful. It's in no way the same, but it's like having worked with children in a different capacity before teaching - there are transferrable skills and it helps you gauge whether you've got some of the basics ('do I enjoy helping people to learn?'). It also depends on the type of teaching you do - a friend who teaches at a very high-achieving sixth form college says that the difference between that and teaching first year seminars to undergraduates is pretty negligible.

I am going on my own experience and that of my colleagues only, I admit.

I'm a careers advisor and my suggestion would be speak to a professional who can given you some guidance - if you contact the National Careers Service they will put you in touch with someone in your area

Margaret and whisky I have read the full thread thank you very much. Clearly something the OP is doing isn't working. And no, I am not an academic, I don't have a phd or even a degree but I do employ people for a living - some with more paper qualifications than me - and I despair at the standard of CV's.

If you have a PHD can you lecture at uni. You would only need pgce for lecturing in FE.

Firstly look at why you cant get a post doc. ask someone to review your CV and see if it can be amended or improved. look at the jobs that you are applying for.

Honestly, this isn't the remotest bit helpful. Academia is a basket case at the mo. She probably can't get a post doc because there aren't any and she's very limited geographically whereas you have to be able to think globally to take advantage of opportunities.

OP good points raised on this thread. I have a PhD and don't work in academia. I too thought about teaching and got a PGCE place (where my PhD was looked on very favourably btw) but I didn't take it up and I'm glad now I didn't. I ended up in branding/marketing consultancy, which is great, but very London centric and would be difficult to get established in with a family.

If I were you I'd look into FE or adult education. Less pressure, but still interesting.

I trained as a teacher on the wrong side of 40. Been doing it for over 10 years now. Love teaching, hate the admin, politics and endless needless 'new' initiatives.
It is the best job in the world in the right school, but the absolute pits in the wrong school. Kids, parents, other staff - all can be nightmares and unless your heart is in it 110%, you will be ground down to mental breakdown. Seen it happen lots of times.
It's not family friendly - you cannot have time off in term time, so seeing your own kids Xmas play, sports day etc - forget it! And don't get me started on the cost of holidays.....I cannot afford to go on one as cannot afford the doubling of prices, and no, I can't pay a fine and go anyway....

FE is not less pressured than school teaching. And it generally does not pay as well either.

Oh god don't look at FE thinking its less pressured! As PP said, it's not less pressure, there are huge added finding targets, lack of resources, government used it as a cashpoint because there is less of a chance of parents being up in arms if they cut funding to the bone than if they cut primary school funding. Courses and staff have been being cut year on year for decades.

A lot of the people I work with have humanities-based PhDs. Many are in their 40s. They earn low-mid 20K in London (standard salary) doing shift work, all night and weekends and bank holidays. Many quit to train to become teachers and have stuck at it - though not all. They weren't all passionate about teaching beforehand, but most have become very competent teachers. Go and investigate some schools and see what it's like.

Why not try for a job as a teaching assistant or cover supervisor, to give you some idea of what the job entails. You’d be unlikely to get on to a PGCE course without some school experience anyway.

Or adult education. Are there any opportunities in your area for that?

By the way, this obviously doesn’t apply to you, but the worst teacher I ever observed had a doctorate in physics. Brilliant at his subject, but completely unable to manage a class.

Private schools often recruit staff without pgce. A phd will look much better on their website! This way you won't need to train and classroom behaviour will be better. That s much more enjoyable than state school teaching

Okay, clearly FE wasn't a good suggestion, apologies.

A question to ask yourself OP is how open you are to further study to qualify as something else. A PGCE will take a year, but do you have appetite for more than this to open up other jobs?

Personally, after doing the PhD I couldn't bear the thought of more, but that's just me.

I didn't think it was possible to get a second student loan for further study? I wanted to do another degree in a more marketable subject but as I already had a degree they wouldn't give me a loan to do another one.

OP, not to depress you further, but 20 job apps in 2 years post-PhD is really nothing in the current climate. If that's all the jobs available in your area (I know you said you can't move) though, that seems an awful lot . Academic jobs nowadays are very much a numbers game.

How about sessional work though? If you're somewhere that 20 potential jobs have come up in your area - so, say, Bristol/Bath - you could probably pick up enough to get by if you were to work for a couple of institutions. It's shit being exploited, but if you're not hoping to trade up into postdoc/permanency then it's tolerable, especially if you are not the main breadwinner. If you've been told you're good at lecturing, your institution will probably be pleased to have you back, even if it's only for tutorials or seminars.

Oh for goodness sake. You cannot use teaching as a backup career. You you have to be passionate about it and, even then, it's a ridiculously hard job.

I see trainee teachers year after year who have come into teaching with massive misconceptions about the reality of it (which is nothing like lecturing) and who are completely unsuited to it. They suffer but worse, the students suffer and it's not fair on anyone.

It’s not a straight choice between teaching and taking in ironing though, is it? There are plenty of other jobs around!

Whatever you do now, surely you will need to train. Why is it that teaching appeals but nursing, medicine, physio, speech therapy, OT etc don’t?

Is it because you can train in just one year, whereas everything else takes longer?