To think these baby boomers are missing the point?

[Hundredacrewoods]

I grew up in an area where house prices have quadrupled since 2000. I consider this an intergenerational equity issue. Whenever the topic of house prices and 'millennials' comes up with my parents' generation, all I hear is how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed to get on the property ladder. AIBU to think that they're missing the point? No one is denying that they worked hard and sacrificed. The point is that if they worked just as hard today, and made the same sacrifices, it wouldn't be anywhere near enough.

No one is blaming the boomers.
What pisses people off is boomers saying ‘no wonder young people can’t afford houses, they buy new phones and eat avocado’ while failing to acknowledge that house prices have risen faster than wages.

That is all. No one is moaning or blaming.

There are some political parties and also resentful people who are very good at scapegoating and directing ire at the innocent but before millennials complain they should remember that the older generations are the parents and grandparents who love them.

Just to reassure you Teacher - I feel passionately about house price rises and inequality and could rant about it for hours, but this does not in any way mean that I don't love my parents and appreciate all that they did for me. I'm 46 (definitely not a millenial!) and have on many times had this house price discussion with my Mum & Dad. It's a political / economic issue not a personal one.

*No one is blaming the boomers.
What pisses people off is boomers saying ‘no wonder young people can’t afford houses, they buy new phones and eat avocado’ while failing to acknowledge that house prices have risen faster than wages.

That is all. No one is moaning or blaming.*

^^ This

Nobody wants an apology, it's not the BBs fault! Nobody's saying 'it's not fair' in a playground way, people are saying there's societal inequality.

Societal inequality affects everyone and is an important issue for all no matter your circumstance or generation.

Stupid formatting where's the bold gone?!

ps Where in the North are all these cheap houses by the way? I'm going to get on Rightmove. Are there still jobs in the areas of the cheap houses?

I've already been telling DCs that if they want houses they should consider Scotland.

I've already been telling DCs that if they want houses they should consider Scotland.

Same problem up here I’m afraid. Most jobs are in the cities, the cities and commuter belts are expensive. Not London-expensive (mostly), but still expensive.

The house we bought 20 years ago, recently sold for £60,000.We moved out of London to a cheap house price area deliberately.

Between 2007 (we were 22) and 2012 we saved £300 a month. We had £18000 saved. Our joint income was £38k. A property was £200k. We were £30k short of what we needed. I then went on mat leave and went to uni - was working very part time for 4 years so used some savings.

Now in 2018 we have savings of £16k, joint income of £50k. We have a child so we need a 2 bed property which costs £260k. We have a shortfall of £44k. It will take us 5 years to save the difference.... by which point house prices have risen again. It’s not saving for a 5% deposit that is the issue, it’s the gap between house prices and the multiplier.

That’s why I enjoy a holiday, iPhone and avocado guilt free. They don’t make any difference to my house affordability...

But you made a choice - university and a child. Many of us with houses did not go to university or have children.

In the modern world it is not possible for most people to do all -
Go to university
Buy a house
Have children
Have a pension

And in reality it never was

Maybe they could stop harping on about how hard they worked as if they are the only ones to do so? They got lucky that’s all. But that is a defense, if people stopped saying they had it so easy they wouldn't feel the need would they.

I'd generally expect that people don't have what isn't invented yet You also don't have to have something just because it has been invented. I don't have an iphone, I know they exist, I'm told they are wonderful. I don't choose to spend that sort of money on a phone. Some people choose to, that's great their money to spend.

Not everyone is in London entirely out of choice although I love it. I wouldn’t mind moving to another city & having a better quality of life, our wages would be lower but not significantly so. However as both DH & I are Londoners we would lose significant family support as would they.

FFS this nonsense about expensive phones. Granted you don’t need the latest model but in a world where tech is moving so fast & competency in it is expected in many many jobs I cannot begrudge a young person being able to access the internet on their phone.

Oh come on granny you are being a touch obtuse there.... Arguably these days people have less of what was invented as there is so much more choice, as a child we had most of what was (zx spectrum, video recorder that the tape popped up out of, cars, microwave what else was there?).

I think talking about it being easy is bollocks, but the period after ww2 was a time of massive opportunity and social mobility. But in other ways this is a better time to live.

In the modern world it is not possible for most people to do all -
Go to university
Buy a house
Have children
Have a pension

And in reality it never was

I agree that in the modern world it's less likely that young people will be able to do all these things without a substantial inheritance or other financial help. However, the point of this thread is that for about a 30-year period it was possible for ordinary people to have everything you've referred to. I'm in my mid-50s, and a lot of my friends of my age or a bit older had all those things, expected that they would be available for future generations, and brought their children up to expect them. Age isn't the only factor - e.g. lots BBs who grew up in poverty in the 1950s, 60s and 70s still had a lot of disadvantages to overcome and subsequently didn't have it all. But overall, your list of goodies were seen as a reasonable aspiration by BBs, and it's understandably causing a lot of inter-generational resentment that they've been placed out of reach.

The point for me is not just to be sympathetic about the situation young people find themselves in, but to do my bit to try to change it through political campaigning. Otherwise my sympathy's not worth much.

mornington I am in my mid 50s. You are talking bullshit. Ordinary people did not go to university when I was young.

No one is blaming the boomers. Maybe not in this thread, but elsewhere. Lots of newspaper articles with phrases like "stolen our future". General accusations that boomers deliberately grabbed all the housing and all the wealth, like greedy early arrivals at a buffet. But at the time, there wasn't any reason to think it was a buffet that would run out; all the predictions were for life to continue to improve, for the working week to get shorter and so on. And meanwhile boomers watch while conditions at work improve with respect to harassment, discrimination, bullying, while things they regarded as luxuries - weekend breaks in european countries, taxis, meals out - become cheaper and commonplace. It's not surprising that having been blamed for the insanity of the country at the moment, they turn round and kick back at the greater ease of other parts of young people's lives. And meanwhile the wealth inequality between the elite and the rest continues to widen, and we're too busy arguing among ourselves to really notice it.

I read that older people are putting about £8 billion a year into the economy in unpaid work, volunteering and things like childminding for offspring

Superb post all round, but this in particular was interesting. The only thing it missed out was that many boomers are also doing the brunt of the caring for their own very elderly parents as well

I'm no economist and don't know how much that equates to in terms of saving public money, but I don't imagine it's small. Maybe it's worth bearing in mind for those who think all boomers live the life of Riley?

This will come back to bite everyone, especially the boomers as property prices are eroded or worse still collapse.

Firstly, all the equity they’ve been stubbornly sitting on will disappear because no one can afford to pay the prices they expect anymore.

Secondly, there will be a huge oversupply of large family homes hitting the market in 5-10 years time as more people realise they need to move due to health or family reasons (or when Corbyn gets in and slaps a huge tax on them).

If I were a baby boomer I would be moving now, get out whilst you can.

I’m not a ‘boomer’ ( born ‘65) but my brothers and I are caring for a 96 year old and working and it’s tough going! He lives an hour drive away and refused to move ( he is secure council tenant as are in laws too who are poorly) if we worked full time he would have to go in to care I suppose. I think this will be a problem for youngsters as they will work till they drop so nobody will care for me or dh. They couldn’t do it all of course.
Still doesn’t address the problems for the young getting a place but not helping them to have their own place isn’t making economic sense either - things will stagnate. I can see it happening.

My bb oarents managed :
Uni
House
children
holidays abroad
private school fees

On a v modest combined income...

Prob because university was free back then and jobs permanent and easy to come by!

No they didn't manage bloody private school fees on a modest income.

Is there a issue with house prices and rents? Yes
Are some people talking rubbish about the past? Yes

For baby boomers, only a small proportion went to university. It was NOT common and was largely the children of well off parents that went. Most ordinary baby boomers lived in houses without central heating, outside toilets, etc. They were not going to private school.

I guess it means what you view as modest. In the past many doctors, police & teachers could send their children private but fees have increased massively hence why you can get bursaries even if you earn 100k.

My siblings are all boomers ( born in the 50s) they had homes and mortgages and used to go out. My sils became Sahms straight away. My sils idea of downsizing was a new 4 bed detached with big garden drive etc. No utility room though😀 (dunno how they cope. ) They are all nice people but have no idea about the struggles of today really. One moaned about uni fees of 1k a term for their dd. Try 9k a term! I think that it’s hard for any generation to understand though. My parents went on about the war and I didn’t get it - (I do now I’m older) Something needs to be done about housing but I don’t hear much about it on the news. It is a worry.

For baby boomers, only a small proportion went to university. It was NOT common and was largely the children of well off parents that went

True, but the flip side is that a university education wasn't required for many well paid, secure jobs with scope for progression. Whereas nowadays a university education (complete with the debt it entails) is a basic requirement for even quite lowly work. My cousin works in a call centre and pretty well everyone there has a degree.

A uni education has become both more expensive and worth less in the job market, which is a bit of a double whammy for Millennials.