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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think these baby boomers are missing the point?

999 replies

Hundredacrewoods · 28/01/2018 08:55

I grew up in an area where house prices have quadrupled since 2000. I consider this an intergenerational equity issue. Whenever the topic of house prices and 'millennials' comes up with my parents' generation, all I hear is how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed to get on the property ladder. AIBU to think that they're missing the point? No one is denying that they worked hard and sacrificed. The point is that if they worked just as hard today, and made the same sacrifices, it wouldn't be anywhere near enough.

OP posts:
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WoollyMollyMonkey · 29/01/2018 22:34

We bought our house in 1989 and I remember our mortgage rate was 17% - and that was a preferential rate as I worked in a bank!

Notthesoap · 29/01/2018 22:38

Wages haven't kept up with house price increases. House prices have increased due to supply and demand. The economy is completely different to how it was.

I feel something of a rarity in my peer group (early 30s) as I'm one of the lucky few who have managed to get on the housing ladder and even then it was a fortunate break in circumstances that allowed that. My brother who is one year older than me and earns more hasn't had the same lucky break and his rent is extortionate. We both have young children but I can't see how he is ever going to get a foot on the housing ladder and neither can he. It's bollocks.

SmallBuisnessOwner · 29/01/2018 22:39

Maybe boomers parents stayed with parents until married (in early 20s) but my parents didn't and asking around none of their friends did.

PancakeInMaBelly · 29/01/2018 22:41

My parents left home when they left school as did all of their friends also

I have no B&B rellies or family friends who lived at home until married...

Bluelady · 29/01/2018 22:44

Born 1953, left home 1971, bought first house 1991.

SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning · 29/01/2018 22:49

I think it’s worth bearing in mind that are are class and regional difference, both back when boomers were becoming young adults and now. Nowadays, in some areas and income brackets, adult children remain in home longer but it’s certainly not true across the country. It was the same some years ago. My parents both grew up in wealthy, middle class homes. They - and their friends and my aunts and uncles plus all their cousins - stayed in the family home until they purchased property. In a different location and income bracket — most of my colleagues (in their twenties) moved out of Home quite rapidly. It’s not helpful to make sweeping statements.

Chesternut · 29/01/2018 22:57

My parents paid £3500 for their 3 bedroomed detached house in South East London in 1970. I payed £180,000 for a 3 bedroomed semi in the NorthWest in 2014. It’s called moving with the times. My children will pay way more than that to even have a chance of getting on the housing ladder.
Just the way it’s always been.

Ninoo25 · 29/01/2018 22:58

OP my Mum and Dad have just had the their house valued at 7 times more than they paid in the 80s. They paid £65000 for a large 4 bed detached on a large plot in a very nice area. They bought this on my Dad’s salary alone. I don’t begrudge them this, but like you do get annoyed when they don’t realise how things have changed and make flippant comments. When we bought our house a few years ago my Mum said, ‘I don’t understand why you aren’t buying a detached house? You’re both well paid and in professions, it seems silly to settle for a semi and you could choose a nicer part of town. I don’t understand why you’d want to move there in the first place.’ 😡 After spending a long time trying to explain that it wasn’t as easy as that and we were buying the best we could afford I gave up and changed the subject. Some of the older generation really just don’t get it. She did seem to think I was just making a bad choice, and that there were affordable detached houses in our town.

PancakeInMaBelly · 29/01/2018 23:04

I get the same, they come to stay and it's all "oh I couldn't live without a utility" "are you going to try to move somewhere with a double garage?" " wouldn't you like a bigger garden, you can't do much with this"

Then in the next breath my generation is entitled and greedy and doesn't know how to do without..

Make your fucking mind up and stop beating us with mutually exclusive sticks!

Chesternut · 29/01/2018 23:06

No blatblatblat there are too many people here scrabbling over too few houses. Think Labour started that.
We need to be smarter with our housing stock. Match social housing users with the right house and fill the empty and rundown houses.
Oh if I could rule the world it would be perfect :-)

PersonAtHome · 29/01/2018 23:41

So many people here have quoted factual house prices increases e.g. person bought xx place in xx year at xx price and now, even just 15 years later, there's no way person could afford to buy that same house on person's salary.

I don't understand how anyone on this thread can read those factual examples and then come back with such stupid sweeping statements about other generations being entitled or spending too much money instead of saving.

Regardless of house prices or generation there will always be some people who are not good with money and lack the ability to budget or save.

But this does not change THE ACTUAL FACTS about how house prices have risen way beyond wage rises.

Nobody is saying that BBs or anyone else caused these rises or are to blame, after all how could they have known their homes would rise so extraordinarily in value?

Back to the OPs point - it's just incredibly frustrating that some (not all) BBs don't, won't or can't grasp the FACT that house prices have risen way out of line with salaries (in the South East, don't know the North well enough).

I even AGREE with BBs that spending has got silly in this day and age (that's marketing and capitalism and keeping up with the Jones's for you).

But I can see that BOTH things are true, people spend too much money AND house prices are stupid and all the opportunities that BBs and others had are now not possible for those who CAN save.

Why are some of you arguing that because some young people can't save that house buying opportunity isn't any different today than it was back in the 70s? It's weird and makes no sense.

Nettie1964 · 30/01/2018 06:27

I am a baby boomer! What do you want an apology? You will eventually inherit these hugely overpriced properties. Could go on for hours get over it YABU

makeourfuture · 30/01/2018 06:39

I am a baby boomer! What do you want an apology?

No I think regarding the original question, what is needed is recognition that something is terribly wrong with the housing market, and support for measures to improve it.

makeourfuture · 30/01/2018 06:40

Apologies don't really fix anything.

MaisyPops · 30/01/2018 07:07

But this does not change THE ACTUAL FACTS about how house prices have risen way beyond wage rises.
This.

Nobody is saying that BBs or anyone else caused these rises or are to blame, after all how could they have known their homes would rise so extraordinarily in value?
This

Back to the OPs point - it's just incredibly frustrating that some (not all) BBs don't, won't or can't grasp the FACT that house prices have risen way out of line with salaries
This. There is zero point saying look qt these 20 / 30 year olds, eating fancy food like avocado.. we had a house at their age and we certainly didn't meet people for coffee

falang · 30/01/2018 07:10

Personathome. Well done for actually acknowledging that house prices have not risen so much they are out of reach everywhere. In my part of the north they have risen but as I've said before, still acceptable houses available around the 100k mark and flats for 60k. I'm a babyboomer living in a small flat, working until I get my state pension and paying my mortgage until then. I'm not apologising to anyone.

ReelingLush18 · 30/01/2018 07:11

There is an element of the "it's not fair" about this thread. It's not really healthy to think like that and doesn't really serve any positive purpose.

TheChineseChicken · 30/01/2018 07:12

Yep, when my parents were 30 they bought a house for £75k that is now worth over £1m. On one (good but not amazing) salary with one child and one on the way. How many 30 year olds could buy that house now?!

MaisyPops · 30/01/2018 07:15

ReelingLush18
I think what bothers most people isn't so kuch house prices are ridiculous in places (i think the rise in buy to let properties has had a big impact too), but that some people who bought when thry were low and have done well out of property over the years get all sanctimonious and smug about it so come out with stupid assertions like 'these young folk don't know hard graft' 'when i was a lad we worked. None of thsi university stuff' 'i was married rith a house by your age and you're still in a house share..maybe if you didn't have a coffee each week you'd have a house' 'you know if you stopped eating all this fancy food you'd have a house. I lived on nothing buy brown rice for months for mine'

TheFirstMrsDV · 30/01/2018 07:16

I am not surprised millennials spend their money on deliveries, travelling, tech and 'experiences'.
What is the point of saving half your money if even that is not going to get you a property in a million years?
It would be stupid.
Life for youngsters (in London) seems to be all about dodgy work contracts, short term rentals and other insecurities.
Why do we expect them to be planning for the short/mid term future when everything seems to conspire against them knowing wtf they will be doing next week?

Its not like that for everyone under 30 but its like that for kids like my DS. WC, urban, no family money.

TheChineseChicken · 30/01/2018 07:17

For context, DH and I both work and have very good salaries and are in the process of buying a house worth a bit over half what theirs is worth and that's only because we have borrowed money from my parents for the last 2 house purchases. And I am quite a bit older than 30!

BeyondThePage · 30/01/2018 07:22

Back to the OPs point - it's just incredibly frustrating that some (not all) BBs don't, won't or can't grasp the FACT that house prices have risen way out of line with salaries (in the South East, don't know the North well enough).

that is the thing - those of us who DON'T live in the SE, or in boom areas - and see flats for sale for £40k-£60K, just over double what we paid, when wages have more than doubled since we bought - are being told that everything has changed nowadays and it is so hard.

Even people who live here, in this actual situation, are saying these things and not looking around themselves. It is like they have bought into the media doom and gloom.

Everyone's experience is different.

Parky04 · 30/01/2018 07:23

Born in early 70's and I do appreciate how lucky I have been regarding house prices and having a DB pension. Yes I have worked hard but so does everyone else.

Live in South East and really cannot see how my two DS will be able to afford to buy a house here.

Teacher22 · 30/01/2018 07:50

The debate on this thread needs to move beyond the scapegoat/ blame game. Or rather it needs some wider perspective. Salaries have not kept pace with house inflation but this is not the fault of the older generation. Globalisation means that goods can be bought cheaply made by workers paid a fraction of UK workers and so salaries have not kept pace. This has not been done by older people and they should not be blamed for it. Market freedom and competition mean that you can buy a washing machine for half the price of twenty years ago because the Chinese workers earn£ 5000 a year.

House prices rocketed when interest rates fell drastically and continued to fall over a number of years from 15 per cent in the 1970’s to, now, two per cent. At the same time up to 125 per cent mortgages were offered and, as most could afford them on modest salaries, property prices rose. When this folly caused a crash the banks were reigned in from lending to those whose spending was high and who would not survive a rate rise. It is these affordability criteria which prevent many having mortgages who could easily afford them. My daughter’s mortgage on a house fell £hundreds a month from what she was paying for a tiny rented flat.

The housing crisis has been exacerbated by the rising population. In 2016 recorded immigration was around 300,000 and the number of houses built was 143,000. Additionally, land banking by developers to keep profits up ensures house building is very slow. Local government premiums changed on new builds are about £80,000 per house keeping prices out of reach for many.

In fact, a lot of the ‘housing crisis’ is just a London problem. Many areas of the country have houses which are reasonably priced or even cheap and some areas have static or falling prices.

I have noticed that some older people who are retired lead very spendthrift lives. I know one couple who went on ten holidays last year and many more who spend cash on cruises and lifestyle breaks. Others like many I read on Gransnet and Martin Lewis website choose to help their children save for deposits. One good way is to let them live at home, bank the rent and hand it over for a deposit. So, yes, in this case, it is the luck of the draw as to whether you have caring or selfish parents but you can’t blame the good one s for what the splurgers do.

On that subject I read that older people are putting about £8 billion a year into the economy in unpaid work, volunteering and things like childminding for offspring.

There are some political parties and also resentful people who are very good at scapegoating and directing ire at the innocent but before millennials complain they should remember that the older generations are the parents and grandparents who love them.

Those grandparents and parents never had a thought of blaming their own ancestors for their troubles. I never, ever heard one person in my generation express anger that their parents had a house.

Shimmershimmerandshine · 30/01/2018 08:01

I hate all this "we didn't have the latest iPhones" bollocks.

I'd generally expect that people don't have what isn't invented yet Grin. The baby boomers had at peak about a 50% smoking rate so any comments about how their generation didn't waste money I take with a pinch of salt tbh. Some people in all generations wasted money, even when they couldn't afford to.

I think we have massive and scary inequality in the UK that goes over and above generational stuff. Those with wealthy parents / grandparents inherit, but many don't and often don't have the life chances that the wealthier have in relation to contacts, education etc.

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