To think these baby boomers are missing the point?

[Hundredacrewoods]

I grew up in an area where house prices have quadrupled since 2000. I consider this an intergenerational equity issue. Whenever the topic of house prices and 'millennials' comes up with my parents' generation, all I hear is how hard they worked and how much they sacrificed to get on the property ladder. AIBU to think that they're missing the point? No one is denying that they worked hard and sacrificed. The point is that if they worked just as hard today, and made the same sacrifices, it wouldn't be anywhere near enough.

Garden didnt say where they lived though - 17k a year wouldnt buy you anything in the area where i live. Even with his 9k saved up and a regular income my son couldnt buy anything within a 7 to 10 mile radius of his job, not on his own anyway. he needs to save more, he knows this and is trying to.
He has a basic understanding of mortgages ( i didnt at his age as my inlaws and parents rented and still do) i had to find out for myself and was so naive too, i have learnt more over the years than i knew back then! its not that easy to find out things without the person giving advice being able to push their own agendas as well, you have to be so careful and get the right advice/ I doubt they would let my son have a mortgage for anything in this area. He will have to look to other areas - but still be close enough for work etc.

Maisy
As a student when I rented I rented shit holes. No central heating. Unsafe electrics. Ice on the inside of the windows. I wouldn’t wish an unsafe home on people. But nice houses were too expensive for me unless I took a loan. When dh and I bought we were in heaven in our little modern house with storage heaters, hot water when we wanted, economy 7 and space for a washing machine! I think doer uppers are more thin on the ground these days so people without hard cash will struggle to buy one. It really annoys when people spurt bollocks about what is and isn’t achievable.

but the 20 pounds they may have spent ( or whatever) is a drop in the vast ocean to the rising cost of buying a home or getting a mortgage

But it isn't. £20 per week is over £1000 per year. Over £10000 over 10 years. Add in another £20 per week habit and you are looking at another £10000.

Small things add up.

its not that easy to find out things without the person giving advice being able to push their own agendas as well

Yes, I do accept that; after all, you've only got to look at the endless mis-selling scandals for examples. My point, though, is that the information does exist for those who are prepared to put the work into researching it - even if it does mean leaving Twatter, YouTube and all the rest alone for a while

Baby boomer here. I feel very sorry indeed for younger people. I went to a grammar school, many of my peers left at 16 and went into the kind of job that would now require a degree. About 5-10% of the population went to university, fees were paid for them and they got maintenance grants. Houses were relatively cheap as were rents and you only needed to pay a month's rent in advance, no deposit. One of my friends bought her first house by borrowing the deposit and lying that the money was for a car loan.

Jobs were easy to come by and the employment market was so buoyant that you could walk our of a job you didn't like on Friday afternoon and in to another one on Monday morning.

My generation did very well on the whole, then pulled the ladder up. Making students get in to £thousands of debt is shameful and predicated on the premise that graduates earn more, what wasn't added was that if you earn more, you pay more tax. That bit of logic was ignored. Half the population with degrees has devalued them so the higher earnings argument is now a fallacy.

I've just handed my inheritance on so my son can buy a house. I voted Remain because leaving the EU is bonkers. And I'm sick of hearing that people could buy a house if they stopped frequenting Starbucks. Please don't tar all boomers with the same brush.

oliver , i take your point about the 20 pounds - i dont buy things like coffee and tea when i;m out shopping etc, but maybe that was their' luxury' for the month? a meet up with friends or family to try and have a bit of down time? we all need something in life - we can t all just sit indoors and do nothing - even the BB;s used to go out now and again i bet, but they wouldnt tell you about it! 10,000 in 10 years, still wouldnt be enough for a deposit in this area. i am not being goady, just trying to understand how hard it all is for some people.

hatty
Rents have risen in the last couple of years because of the changes in legislation made by the government. IE phasing out of tax relief on mortgage payments and an additional 3% stamp duty on second homes

If the government also caps rents, a lot of landlords will be forced to sell especially if interest rates go up. The government depends on these landlords to house people and will be in shit creek trying to house all those extra people. Much as I appreciate many people want to buy but not everyone for a variety of reasons, even people on this thread. It’s an uncomfortable balance and there are not enough “affordable” housing and social housing. If labour get in they reckoned last time they’d do just that. It will be interesting if that’s the right word.

I think your 3rd point is coming to fruition with people selling homes to pay for their care, which is a good thing but sad for descendants who then can’t get on the property ladder.

You’re wrong. My late father worked all hours God have to save sufficient to buy a house for his family. He and my mother sacrificed huge amounts to do so.
My husband and I saved and scrimped going without all manner of things to get a foot on the property ladder. We didn’t find it easy at all. We lived in tied accommodation so we could rent out our own houses - and that meant being available 24 hours a day. We didn’t have holidays except voluntary work summer camps. We didn’t have cars. We ate beans on toast. My husband had three professional jobs at one point. No t wasn’t easier but more people were willing to forego creature comforts and there was a lesser sense of entitlement to all things consumerist. I didn’t have a mobile phone until well into the 90s.
It’s tough now but hard work and saving does make it possible still.

By the way, a full maintenance grant for University was only ever available to those who's parents could demonstrate poverty. I didn't get one and had to work through University. We didn't pay tuition fees though.

I didn’t have a mobile phone until well into the 90s.

To be fair, I would have thought most of us didn’t have mobile phones until well into the nineties. Before then they were those huge bricks that cost an absolute bomb that only swanky city slicker types kept in their Ferraris!

I graduated in the 70s and jobs were NOT easy to come at all! Even with a decent degree.

Very interesting topic. I am 30s, I own a flat, j has help from 'boomer' parents.

I do think that some people of similar age to me have an approach to homeownership in that they want a house of a specific size and standard and are not happy to buy something smaller or in a not so good area, and then stage up from there as you can.

I appreciate not everyone is in this circumstance.

A full maintenance grant was available to anyone over 26 with no reference to parental income. I got one.

None of us had mobiles till the 90s, they were not around then and anyone who did had a huge thing that cost a small fortune - stock broker types could afford those ones! people have to have some kind of technology just to survive these days - its just the way it is and has been made so.
I was brought up on a council estate, my parents rented and we didnt have a car - we were really poor, but i could still save enough to buy a house ( with my dh) - i was luckier than today's youngsters, i didnt have a really well paid job either, dh was on a better salary than me, but it wasn't huge. we had to scrimp and so on, but we did used to go out now and again as well. It just seemed a bit easier for us, or maybe i was just luckier or something? i dont know, i just think it is unfair that today's young won;t have these opportunties ( unless their parents are really rich or something)

My husband had three professional jobs at one point

I'm not sure how this would have been possible then, but there's no way in hell this would work now. Most professionals are contracted for 36-38 hours but actually work more like 45-50 minimum. How this is feasible x3 I'd love to know.

You appear to have lived in a parallel universe, jaghox. I was never out of work in the 70s, nor were any of my peers. Full employment UK wide.

Supersigh 53rd As I said, there are other interpretations of that graph.

If you look for owner occupier stats, for example. That has grown inexorably since the 50s until the millennium, when it dipped and has not yet recovered.

The biggest changes have been how homes have been owned or rented. In about 2010 private renters overtook social renters and outright ownership overtook ownership with mortgage - that sort of belies it being mostly Boomers who outright own! Though you would expect older people to be owners more than younger, it makes both financial and social sense!

The number of 1st time buyers is now back at 1970s / 80s levels. Which makes sense, given the home owning growth and bust.

If you use the 1980 - 1990 figures then yes, young home owners have shrunk. But then look at why so many younger people bought in the mid 80s, and what happened when the interest rates shot through the roof. Many factors have been discussed her already, MIRAS, 100% mortgages etc etc

None of which contradicts the facts that many 20 year olds back then also lived in grotty, damp bedsits. They had done so happily until rents started to rise and the government decided to make ownership more enticing by allowing a change in mortgages - and we all know how that ended. People with more established mortgages were far less badly hit than those with new mortgages... so home ownership in 20 somethings fell again.

A pretty table will tell you one immediate story, but you still need more information to flesh it out and understand why?

That's why I find all the Baby Boomer hate weird. It's not like they stole anything. And yes, some people can be truly smug, but that certainly isn't an age characteristic!

Baby Boomers were fortunate in that houses were much more affordable for them. However most did not have the money to spend on the stuff that we treat as normal today (mobile phones, Wi-fi, Netflix, sky TV, gym memberships, takeaway coffee, etc).

My parents worked really hard, but also saved hard and are now enjoying a comfortable retirement. I can't afford to buy my own home, but I'm lucky in that my parents have been able to help me out occasionally when I've been struggling.

It's not their fault house prices are now extortionate, blame the Government for failing to build anywhere near enough houses.

My husband and I saved and scrimped going without all manner of things to get a foot on the property ladder. We didn’t find it easy at all.

But it was doable/possible
And that is what people mean when they say it was "easIER".
Because it was, doable is "easier" than impossible (for many)

It's simple maths. A terrace in a not great area that needs fixing up in NOT LONDON would be twelve times my salary and I'm on okay pay, certainly not mum wage. Graduate profession.

Luckily I bought when they were throwing mortgages at everyone in the noughties. I couldn't get on the ladder if I was starting today no matter how many sacrifices I made.

And fixer -uppers are
A. Snapped up by cash developers
B. Often not mortgage
The fixed upper route WAS an easier route into ownership in the past than it is now!

When in the past has a starter home been TWELVE TIMES an okay salary?

"often not mortgagABLE"

The reason people didn't used to have mobile phones/netflix/sky/wifi etc is because they didn't exist
People did have cars, homes, central heating, often one partner SAH with kids, paying into pensions.
Clothes and holidays, technology and dishwashers etc were far more expensive proportionately compared to now. So the standard of living may well have been/seemed lower.
Nevertheless, baby boomers have not only done well compared to their children/grandchildren, but also compared to their parents/grandparents. They were one lucky generation. Some, like blue lady acknowledge this. Others simply won't have it, which is a bit infuriating for everyone else.

pancake, most ' doer uppers'in this area are sold, then i see the white vans outside for a good few months, then the for sale signs go up. Builders must be earning loads. its sad to see really.

we are not saying that the BB's ' stole anything' its just that their grasp on the current situation isn't always favourable , they dont want to know the reasons why, just what they did ( or didnt do!)

Nevertheless, baby boomers have not only done well compared to their children/grandchildren, but also compared to their parents/grandparents. They were one lucky generation. Some, like blue lady acknowledge this. Others simply won't have it, which is a bit infuriating for everyone else.

Again, why does this cause the fairly vitriolic postings about them? Why do some people choose to focus on that? Life is full of inequities, why pick this one?

I have not denied that Baby Boomers were born in a really fortunate window of time. Some of them did very well out of the opportunities that time gave them. But not all of them could, not all of them are floating around in spare cash!

I don't understand why they attract such persistent hate here. I am guessing it is fuelled in the usual manner, various media outlets pushing an agenda for whatever reason. But I don't understand it.

There is far more inequity between me and any of the top 1% cash rich in the UK than there is between me and any Boomer who owns their home and has a good pension. I'd happily join in with anyone who wants to do discuss how to reduce the gap between the Haves and Have Nots based purely on their assets.

But not on age!

They didn’t have graze subscriptions and beauty boxes and Ocado delivery’s. People spend thier money on nonsense today, that’s why they can’t buy a house.

You have it all backwards. People spend on "nonsense" because if they went without them they still wouldn't be able to buy. So might as well spend on the things that'll make existing in shifty rentals indefinitely bearable.

You really think that cutting out that sort of thing will save young people enough to mitigate against the fact that houses round here (were the jobs are, young people who need jobs can't be moving to the kinda places where property is dirt cheap but few jobs) are TWELVE TIMES a graduate salary? And that's for a run down small terrace in a non fancy area

we are not saying that the BB's ' stole anything' its just that their grasp on the current situation isn't always favourable , they dont want to know the reasons why, just what they did ( or didnt do!) So you really do just want Boomers to smile and speak nicely?

OK! Weird, but OK, if that pleases you!