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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that sime homeowners regard themselves as superior to renters?

162 replies

malificent7 · 27/01/2018 12:39

Not all by any means but im a bit fed up of the 'well i work hard and lived off baked beans for 10 years.'
Well i work hard but cant save a penny as there isnt enough cash to stretch.
I find it hard to muster any enthusiasm when a friend shows me around the latest extension and starts talking about house values.
i just cannot relate.
Yes of course im envious but i made bad decisions when younger due to bad mental health issues.
I also feel like my ex friendship group split into homeowner/ non homeowner groups...maybe they have more in common although i do work longer hours....its just i dont live with a nain breadwinner atm.
Ive also been told by friends that i SHOULD get a mortgage...
I mean why SHOULD i if i cant afford it?
One friend said that homeowners take better care of their property...generalisation.

I feel sad as i find so many people money orientated..and snooty with it.

OP posts:
Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 27/01/2018 15:27

That's all fair enough, op; but it doesn't address the question of everyone else feeling superior to you (in your opinion).

malificent7 · 27/01/2018 15:28

I foubd about my friends mortgages due to the constant put downs / advice.
'You SHOULD get a mortgage.'
'You can't afford to buy.'
'Renters dont treat the property as nice as home owners.'

I've distanced myself.

OP posts:
Roomba · 27/01/2018 15:29

I certainly don't think I'm superior. I'm extremely aware that I was very fortunate to buy with a 95% mortgage at basically the last possible point that I could afford the cheapest house - a year later and house prices had gone up so I would never have been able to buy. And I was working FT in a decent job then, I;d have no chance whatsoever of any mortgage now.

I have to say in a lot of ways it has felt like a millstone round my neck, tbh. It has deteriorated because my situation has changed and I can't afford repair work and decoration that's needed. If renting, a landlord would be responsible for all of that. I got zero assistance when not working which left me in absolute poverty (like food bank reliance and no heating or hot water for months poverty). I can't remortgage or get a cheaper rate due to my current finances.

But I have to keep reminding myself that I will have an asset at the end of it that I can use to keep myself in my old age. And I can't be kicked out on a whim by the landlord which is the main reason I do it. I wish renters here had the same protections as in Europe though as I'd probably be better off renting long term as my current situation stands! I'd never make comments about renting being dead money, as if people actually choose to rent as some kind of lifestyle choice! I'm well aware of why most people can't do so and think myself (mostly) lucky.

malificent7 · 27/01/2018 15:31

Imo it is a roof over the head so not dead money .

OP posts:
CoffeeWithMyOxygen · 27/01/2018 15:34

In some people’s heads there seems to be a complete lack of logic about it. My FIL is one of those who often states that renting is ‘money down the drain’ - DH and I currently rent, SIL and her husband own. They own in a terrible area as it’s all they could afford, and are now struggling to move somewhere with better schools, but can’t afford to buy in the right catchment area - yet they’d situation is somehow seen as better than mine and DH’s, who have lots of flexibility and rent in a better area. I just shrug it off as all he’s doing is showing his own ignorance.

Cailleach1 · 27/01/2018 15:38

What spurred us to buy was a landlady who was going on about how she was disgusted because we had an indoor litter tray for our cats. It was placed on a double folded plastic tarpaulin with a margin around under the tray. The tray was also the covered type to prevent litter being pushed out. Our cats were completely litter trained. And she knew we had cats when we rented the place.

Left her horrible, freezing and run down house cleaner than she rented it to us. There was something wrong with the central heating and we had to light the fire to warm it up properly. Where I washed a door near the bin was a patch of white surrounded by the off white of the grubby paintwork.

We had to rent another house between that and going to our own. Couldn't have been more different. It was so warm and comfy. The landlord's parents lived next door, but it was an addition rather than a problem. They were such lovely and decent people.

Chienrouge · 27/01/2018 15:39

We’ve just bought our first house (early 30’s with small children) after renting for years due to moving around a lot. My friends are still the same now we’re homeowners Confused (friends are a mixture of owners and renters), and bar a ‘congratulations, how lovely’ I can’t say it’s something that is discussed! We don’t base our friendship or our social lives around discussions about decorating and home improvements, thank god.

I think you need some new friends OP.

Christmascardqueen · 27/01/2018 15:45

Some people don’t have a choice and renting is necessary for a variety of reasons.
But owing a mortgage to a bank is very different than owing a LL.
Personally I was very aware who in my family rented and who owned from a young age.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 27/01/2018 15:46

Renters don't treat the property as nice as homeowners
Did someone actually say that to you, knowing you rent?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 27/01/2018 15:49

Why is their situation "worse" than yours, Coffee, given that they can presumably make a profit on selling their existing house if they chose to rent in an area they couldn't afford to buy in?

sinceyouask · 27/01/2018 15:51

Definitely. I remember once talking a relative about our respective homes and she said "but it isn't really your home is it, you just rent". It's not my house but yes, as long as I am paying rent, it bloody well is my home- and I pay a lot more to rent it than I would for a mortgage to buy it.

Bluntness100 · 27/01/2018 15:57

I understand why they are now your ex friends as you call them in your op. I don't know anyone in real life who talks to people like your ex friends did. It's a shame you were involved with so many arseholes, but I think this thread has shown it's very unusual what you've experienced in your ex friendship group and In general people don't look down on renters as most have been there.

The issue as such was your ex friends and not some general societel divide and snobbishness.

Unless of course your own issues with envy are overly skewing your view and you focus only on the very rare comment and take it out of context.

Cake20189 · 27/01/2018 16:06

Sounds like you are a little jealous and projecting your own insecurities onto people who own homes. There’s nothing wrong with renting in fact it’s great and has benefits such as not having to deal with fixing things that always go wrong in houses. But also there’s nothing wrong with someone being proud that they have worked hard and saved for their own home.

WazFlimFlam · 27/01/2018 16:07

lamagreyhound why is it so hard to believe that yes, people make comments like that to renters all the time. MN is full of people making PA put downs about things people don't have, children, jobs etc etc.

Linnet · 27/01/2018 16:14

My next door neighbour seems to look down on renters. We live in a street which is a mix of bought and housing association rented flats. Next door owns, as do we, but for the longest time she didn’t talk to us as she thought we were renters. She would talk to others who she knew owned but not us. When she found out that we were owners she suddenly became very chatty, but she still doesn’t talk to the people who rent. Very odd.

blackchina · 27/01/2018 16:19

Well, many people who are homeowners are not judgy and sneery at all, and some people I know who own are lovely, and don't give a chuff about us renting. Howeverrrrr... there are a few homeowners who do have this attitude sadly. We rent a social housing property, and are asked regularly by one particular couple why we rent, if we will ever buy, and if we realise that renting is 'dead money.' Hmm

This particular couple have a £163K mortgage that they took out 4 years ago at the age of 50. A £163K mortgage at 50. Fuck that. Just so they can say, 'oooh look we OWN our house.' (Errrrr, no you don't actually!) And within 2 months of them moving in, the boiler packed up. Ta-ta 2 grand. They are constantly broke, never go anywhere, never do anything, and never buy anything, coz they are ALWAYS forking out for house repairs.

We rented a little housing association flat from 1989-1994 that cost £18 a week at the start, and £26 a week when we left. We were constantly loaded, tons of surplus income, both working full time, new cars, loads of holidays abroad. Then in the mid 1990's, we made the decision to buy a property after constant nagging/ goading/ put-downs/ borderline bullying about us renting; like we were some kind of low lives for renting. (We were in 'office' jobs working for the local authority, and so renting didn't fit the 'persona.')

There was this 'you're a better person if you are a homeowner' train of thought back then, and I think it still exists tbh. (In the minds of some people......)

SO, we bought out first house in 1994, and had 3 different homes over 18 years. For the entire 18 years we never had any surplus income, and got further and further into debt, as each one of the 3 properties seemed to have one thing after another go wrong with it.

We were on a modest income, and could not keep up with escalating mortgage rates and high cost of home repairs. Loads of people we knew seemed to have a dad/uncle/brother etc who could do stuff for them, but we had no-one. So we had to take out loan after loan after loan to pay for stuff. We struggled to keep up with the loan payments, and house repairs.

Long story short, in 2012, we sold up, and used the equity to pay off our debts, and went into private rent. We then went on the social housing register. We struggled for 4 years with the high rent and the frankly, very poor landlords who didn't give a shit about the property.

In 2016, we were offered a little 2 bed house; £69 a week rent, permanent tenancy, all repairs done, lovely little cul de sac, great neighbours, close to woodland.

For the past 18 months we have never felt so free, and we have not been so financially well-off since the early 1990's. We have also not felt this stress-free since the early 1990's. No more panicking if we hear the heating popping, or worrying about the roof blowing off if there is a storm. Friends tell us that we look 10 years younger than we did 6-7 years ago.

If people want to buy, and it works for them, and they have the means to get repairs done cheaply, and they have lots of excess income after the mortgage, and 1000's and 1000's saved for unexpected house repairs, then good luck to them. Us however, we should never have bought a house. It brought us nothing but misery and penury and debt.

As I said, we have never been so happy and relaxed and chilled and financially secure since securing social housing. We pay full rent, and have never claimed housing benefit, or council tax benefit, and it really boils my piss when people say social housing is funded by the taxpayer. No it ISN'T. It's funded by the bloody rent people pay!

Our only regret is that we ever gave up our social housing property in the mid 1990's. Still, it's all good now. And anyone who poo-poos us can fuck right off, because we have never been happier. And as a few people have said, many people rent on other countries; it's just the British that seem to have this bizarre obsession with 'owning' a property. (And let's face it, most people never own it anyway; the sodding BANK does!)

But yeah, YANBU @Malificent7 some people DO look down on renters, even if people choose to deny this fact.

Oh and some people (who rent) may not treat the house as good as if they owned it, but WE do. Especially as it's a tenancy for life. Smile

Cake20189 · 27/01/2018 16:24

Linnet How could your neighbour not have known that you owned your house? Surely she would have noticed it went up for sale?

GameChanger01 · 27/01/2018 16:29

Honestly who cares?! And how do people know so much about others finances

Bluntness100 · 27/01/2018 16:31

MN is full of people making PA put downs about things people don't have, children, jobs etc etc

Mumsnet is not real life and you see lots of shite on here that you'd pretty much never encounter someone saying in real life, especially not to their friends.

HelenaDove · 27/01/2018 16:34

YY OP Just read any thread where a tenant posts about a repair that needs doing.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3149899-To-Ask-about-Tenants-Rights-Re-24-hours-with-no-heating-or-hot-water

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/01/2018 16:35

I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel shit. I hope your mental health isn’t suffering.

Renters don’t treat the property as nice as homeowners

I don’t think that’s true at all. Some tenants treat their homes amazingly well. Others don’t. Rather like home owners.

Renting is different in the continent, though isn’t it? Tenancies are more secure, so you can invest in your surroundings. Also, the costs are more controlled.

Try renting in Germany, where you have to return the property in the state you rented it. There doesn’t seem to be the concept of wear and tear. You either get a house in great shape and put it back to the same state when you arrived. IE redecorate throughout, replace carpets or you get a house in a shit state, do it up and leave all your hard earned cash there.

As for Belgium, the maximum penalty you pay for breaking the contract early reduces on how long you’ve had a contract for. Dh and I stayed just shy of 2 years on a 9 year contract and the penalty due was 3 months additional rent after we moved out. The owners were allowed to get new tenants in during this time and effectively get double money.

It’s not all milk and honey abroad. Idk where these views come from. Gutter press perhaps?

If you ever watch stuff like Homes Under The Hammer you’ll hear the shouty blonde lady of Del Boy coat man say things like, “It’ll do for renters...” when talking about cheap-arse kitchens of nylon carpets in a weird shade of brown.

Whereas to sell it you’ll expect much nicer stuff.

An owner selling will be looking to maximise the value of a house. The owner renting is looking for durability - it is false economy to put in a cheap kitchen though. Spending substantially more may up the rent by £25-40 on an £800 rent. Whereas on a £200k house, the value can easily go up by £20k on a really well done up house. And the really nicely done up houses are not necessarily practical to live in. They just look nice. It isn’t about demeaning tenants. The two aren’t comparable.

MexicanBob · 27/01/2018 16:36

It goes back centuries. Yeoman farmers (i.e owners) were socially superior to tenant farmers. Always been the case. The British class system is an extraordinarily tough beast to kill.

Linnet · 27/01/2018 16:38

cake20189 we already lived here when she bought next door and moved in.

Viviennemary · 27/01/2018 16:39

I don't think comparisons are any worse here than comparisons between semi, terraced and detached. And areas. Garden and back yard. If you are going to compare then comparisons will never end. Do what suits your situation at present.

Friedgreen · 27/01/2018 16:40

European conditions for tenants are atrocious. The landlord won’t pay for any redecoration, furniture, repairs - it’s all on the tenant. They also have to return properties in exactly the same state as they obtain it (might mean doing kitchen renovations, repair work etc) otherwise they would lose their deposit AND get charged up to 2 years rent. This is why Europeans love to rent in the UK. It doesn’t feel like it but tenants actually have better rights here