to think that the idea of women as 'decoration' for the male gaze in sports like F1 and boxing is outdated?

[kalapattar]

Formula One has its 'grid girls' -- women who stand in front of the cars holding up numbers and mingling with the sponsors - as well as those who award the winner with a kiss

Boxing has its 'round girls' - women who walk around the ring holding the round number

Cycling has its 'podium girls'.

Then there's 'booth babes' - used famously at Las Vegas tech show to attract male customers to the booths for the different clients.

www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2018/01/12/ces-booth-babes-less-obvious-but-theyre-not-gone/1029060001/

Isn't this all just a little bit outdated? Why do these companies need beautiful, young women to mingle with their (mainly male ) sponsors, give awards to their male winners, and to pose at their conferences?

Women sadly are complicit in it. As long as there are women who trade on their looks, men will look at them as objects, and that filters down through wider society.

I think focussing on young women wanting to earn 250 quid for a single day's work as "complicity" misses the point.

The money and the power believe it's acceptable to treat women like objects. It isn't and the 'willingness' of young girls is beside the point.

The President's Club was horrendous because of misogyny + lack of consent. Even if you remove the latter, the inherent misogyny is still horrifying.

Women sadly are complicit in it. As long as there are women who trade on their looks, men will look at them as objects, and that filters down through wider society.

Or...

As long as there are men who look on women as objects, there will be women who make the most of that and trade on their looks.

As long as companies think 'sex sells' because they know that an attractive woman attracts men and viewers, then there will be some that decide to use attractive women in this way. You can't blame someone for wanting to take advantage of that and trade on their looks.

I can't see how sports can justify 'grid girls' etc - unless their only 'justification' is that their rich sponsors get to mix with them and their male viewers get to look at attractive women.

I think it is all part of the culture that gave us Weinstein and the President's club.

Indeed Kerala the DD's and I always heckle the cycling podiums, DH and the DS's agree it is objectifying. Annoying that in the 21st century you still have to explain these things out to your kids.

I haven't seen much women's cycling, what goes on there?

In Australia for the Tour Down Under, they replaced 'podium girls' with junior cyclists who gave the winners their medals

www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-down-under-to-replace-podium-girls-with-junior-riders/

The Government's paying for grid girls at the same time we're putting money into mental health areas to help young women who have body image problems," said South Australia Sports Minister Leon Bignell, who, according to the ABC, has been the driving force behind the move.

"What we actually want to do is inspire girls and young women who come to the motor racing to be car drivers or to be mechanics or to be engineers."

Podium girls have long been a feature of the post-race podium presentations. However, there have been increasingly more calls to change the protocols, with some believing it is archaic, and there have been some controversial moments.

In 2013, Peter Sagan got himself into hot water when he pinched the bottom of one of the podium girls after the Tour of Flanders – he later apologised. Two years later, there was furore caused by podium girls being forced to wear bikinis for the women’s Flanders Diamond Tour.

Some organisers have opted to replace ‘podium girls’ with boys. In 2010, Dutch politicians proposed replacing the usual podium girls with podium guys when the Giro d’Italia visited. In the end, the Giro d’Italia organisers had their way and the podium presentations went on as they had done before.

However, La Course, Gent-Wevelgem and the Ladies Tour of Norway are among the races that have used podium boys.

A model agency director called the South Australia government decision sad, but SA Unions secretary Joe Szakacs said that it would not limit employment options for models.

"There's certainly no lack of opportunity for women to participate in modelling and fashion," he said. "What I think this does is make a very clear statement that there is a much more constructive, productive and influential role that women can and should play in delivering these events."

Wow, slightly stunned that Australia is leading the way on this, but good luck to them.

Sagan just went down in my estimation though.

I've met some of these girls and they were having a great time, and getting paid too. So long as the models enjoy what they are doing then in see no problem. What about dancers and cheerleaders - they are for exhibition too.

Agreed. I turn it off, do not want my daughter or nieces seeing it. Never in your life would 4 men prance about whilst women played darts. The women should aspire to be the darts player/ f1 driver Not a podium person.

YANBU. Whether the women enjoy it is by the by imo. It's the whole power dynamic and women existing for decoration thing which doesn't sit right. Men at the top pulling the strings, as usual.

So long as the models enjoy what they are doing then in see no problem

Do you think that F1 needs to have 'grid girls' whose job it is to hold up the car number and then mix with the rich male sponsors?

Do you think boxing needs 'round 'girls' to parade around the boxing ring telling the (mainly male audience) what round is coming up next?

If so, why?

So long as the models enjoy what they are doing then in see no problem.

It's not just about the models, it's about the way women as a whole are viewed in society, by encouraging using women for decorative purposes we are reinforcing the notion that women are decorative and this has a negative effect on women and girls.

It's horrible and I'm doing my best to endure my dd's self esteem remains intact but society makes that difficult.

Don't particularly see a reason for it. Wouldn't make any difference to me. But don't see it as something to get worked up over.

Must admit it has never had any negative effect on me as a woman. I have in no way grown up feeling demeaned by sports using female models. Maybe this is something parents should instil. I had quite a strong minded, positive and encouraging mother though.

You are very fortunate then Starzig to have never been objectified, or treated as unequal, or made to feel intimidated at all, just because you are a women.

Because these things happen because of the same mentality that uses women as decoration for the enjoyment of men.

Absolutely OP. Can you imagine the equivalent; I dunno some chippendale-a-likes wheeled out to present medals to women? It is utterly ridiculous. Needs to stop.

It's also how girls are excluded from high profile sports, many young girls watching that will see her place in the sport as being the decoration. It's outdated and ridiculous, I'm sure I read that pit girls may be dropped soon though.

It’s bullshit.

It’s not actually about the women that do it; I accept that many of them are completely willing. It’s about the children watching around the world internalising the message about the role of women on something as mainstream and acceptable as F1.

I suppose we should be grateful that cheer leading isn't widespread in the UK. There's an appalling message for you.

It is bullshit, funny because I tried to have a discussion with someone in a governing body of motorsport last week - and they said it will never change because men don't want it to change. So although they are discussing getting rid of pit girls I think it's unlikely until the dinosaurs die off.

I done a lot of gymnastics and martial arts as a youngster. Would have loved to have done cheerleading.

This is a drum I've been banging for some time, it is just vile. DH watches the race only in F1 as I do not want DD or DS to think the 'grid girl's' are in any way acceptable or normal.

You get cheerleader/dancing girl type routines at Rugby League matches too and, while I agree entirely that this sort of thing contributes to the insidious sexism in society, teaching both men and women that women are decorative entertainment, I've never actually noticed any men really looking at them so I've no idea what the point actually is!

In cycling, don't the winners get rewarded with a kiss on the cheek by the podium girls?