Please help me understand this - mothers and daughters

[oaktreee]

Hi

I feel like I'm too close to this situation to see the wood for the trees and would love some insight from anyone that can help or understands what's going on here. I've been struggling for a while now with the relationship with my 9 year old daughter.

When I try to help her or point something out to her she gets so angry and frustrated. It's as though she can't bear to listen to my advice, tries to walk away every 3 seconds while I'm talking to her, shows how frustrated she is while I'm speaking by doing things like kicking the table leg or trying to bore her pencil into something.

It's mostly homework related (Y5). If I try and help, even when she asks for my help, she just gets so short tempered and angry with me. It's not always homework - it's other small insignificant things like if I tell her there's a knot at the back of her plait but I can help her fix it really quickly and easily, she'll look at me like I've deliberately tried to hurt her, rather than just accept my help. Then take out the entire plait and scruff up her hair!

I just feel like she views me as her enemy. If anyone else tries to help her (babysitter, family member, teacher, friend), it's not an issue. If I try and help she gets so defensive.

I don't know how to handle this better, and I don't really understand what she's feeling. Is she angry because she doesn't want me to see her weaknesses? Am I too overbearing?

Really need to find a fix soon as it's damaging our relationship. When she reacts so negatively to my help I feel rejected, and then I either feel very upset or start lecturing her in anger about how rude she is.

I have a similar relationship with our nearly 9 year old. She asks for help then Immediately dismisses any suggestion. She also takes absolutely everything to heart. So, a simple request like “can you remember to put the top on your toothpaste so it doesn’t dry out” makes her bottom lip wobble and she immediately argues as to why it wasn’t her fault the lid wasn’t on the toothpaste.

She argues about everything, big or little. Every second sentence is “yes, but...”. And to add to the fun we have a young girl striving for independence with a body which sometimes doesn’t allow it. On the flip side, she will often play on her disability to get out of stuff.

It’s hard for us to extract what is disability and what is typical 8, but I am heartened to hear we aren’t alone in the struggle! I’m trying to get so many of these issues ironed out before we hit teenage, but it just isn’t going so well. I am often at a loss as to how to get through to her.

In all other ways, she is a brilliant girl. Kind, caring, smart, funny, but oh when she argues, it drives us batty! Any tips here will be gratefully received.

I am a control freak at heart so when she asks a question on one part of her homework I will often go on to look through the whole thing

At least you can see the part of the problem is you.

One thing I read that really helped me was that to give our children more "help" than they need is just as bad as not giving them help when they need it.

Besides, the teachers know that when homework comes back perfect, it's generally a reflection of the parent's ability rather than the student's.

DS came home from school today and said "Do you have any special plans for dinner, because I want noodles" - and then he went and made his own noodles. I hadn't even got up off my chair! I went in and realised he'd already done the kettle and was stirring them and getting a plate to put on top and I said do you want me to carry it through, it's hot, and he said that's why I've got this tea towel.

He just knew what he wanted and he did it - and it took me totally by surprise.

And then he said they didn't taste right so I suggested adding some soy sauce, and I had to pour it for him because it pours too fast - and then I had to get the oyster sauce from the cupboard because he couldn't reach it :)

It's the contrast of those moments, really - the independence but not quite. I think it's an amazing age. Not without challenge of course.

Well putting my 12 yr old on the naughty step would certainly make him laugh. My 9 yr old would look at me with the most disdainful face anyone ever had if I even suggested it.
I left the rod of iron far too late.

Well done...your daughter is growing up and wants to be independant...you have done a good job.

It is her homework, she needs to learn herself...you checking her homework does not help her: her teachers do that bit...they need to see what she understands and what she doesn't.

Step away after patting yourself on your back !

My niece was like this, she is now 20 and still the same. My sister cant say anything to her, she talks to my sister like she's shit on her shoe. How my sister hasn't throttled her by now i'll never know! I hope the advice works for you, being a parent is bloody hard

Sounds very similar to my DD. I have stepped back from homework unless I get asked for help and if the situation becomes heated, we pack away.

She probably feels like you are picking on her and every time you mention something you are being critical. Just back off a bit.

‘Why is it humiliating taking 9 calm minutes to think about how she got into the situation? And then to have a quick chat and cuddle and it’s resolved.’

Oh wow, you weren’t joking?

This aside, there’s been some really kind and heart-warming advice on this thread. Bertie your posts are so lovely and bring a tear to my eye too!

Isn’t it called ‘potted plant parenting’, as they get older? There in the background when needed, but not trying to take control.

One reassuring thing you could think is she certainly wouldn’t behave like this with you unless she was certain you’re never going to reject her or throw her out. You’re the closest one to her so unfortunately (for you!) you’ll get the brunt of her frustrations in the coming years. But it means you’ve done your job right.

I know that’s probably not much use in the heat of a situation tho xx

I went through this for a while with dd. I gave her independence when she wanted it. We'd discuss why I hadn't in some cases. (Walking home from school...no but when your 11 we 'll talk againkinda thing)
I could feel her wanting to rip into me some days so in traffic I asked her if she wanted to rip into me sometimes...she said yes (she was mortified) I told her that how's a difficult time for her...hormones flying everywhere and how she felt was real and normal but no refection on her as a person. She wanted to know when those feelings would go...I said I d let her know when it happens to me...but years lol. Since then she's so much more contented.
We home some.imes about our hormones. I wasn't pulling the hormone card just wanted her to realise that her control over moods at 11 (that s her age now) was limited and the main thing was I didn't want her to be tortured by every word she uttered.
The hardest thing is teaching your kids not to need you...and accepting it when it happens.
Dunno if I have it right but she talks to me and trusts me. It's a start for the teen years...might go to pot in 6 months.
Heap on the praise for achievements, praise independence and always be free and generous with the cuddles.
Wish there was a book for all these problems...

I used to become similarly irritated by my mum when she would try and help me with school work (right up until I finished school in fact, sorry!).
Even though she was usually right, it made me feel like my ideas were no good and I’d never live up to her standards. I don’t think she was trying to be overly critical, she was just analysing the work as a well read, 40+ year old which of course I could not match so I was always going to be inadequate by comparison. I like the swim beside her analogy!

When my daughter was this age I realised that often my “helpful suggestions” came over as critical (took my husband imitating me and asking me wouldn’t I prefer to wear another coat before the penny dropped ).

I literally wrote a list of positive things to say to her —not including anything about looks as we didn’t want her to think that was what we valued most —and tried to use it the moment I saw her at the end of the day.

The change from starting conversations with “where’s your homework “ or “how did your spellings go?” to starting with a positive about how she was (eg thoughtful, careful, quick, smiley, accurate, organised, enthusiastic) made a huge difference to our relationship.

Her hormones are probably starting to rage.

If you can't help her sort her hair don't comment on it.

When I try to help her or point something out to her she gets so angry and frustrated

Are you telling her anything else? If it's just negative is it any wonder there is a problem.

I can still remember making my mum a birthday card at about age 7, when she got it she pointed out the spelling mistake in it. Looking back why couldn't she just have said 'thank you'. I mean how much does a spelling mistake matter? If I was writing a legal letter or in medical notes yes it would be important.

It might be an obvious one but all the things you mention she might be perceiving (wrongly) as criticism?

I'd say this ^ too but from your latest post you seem to have hit the nail on the head.

My mum is also quite controlling and critical (I say this with love, she has many good qualities) and it's taken me until fairly recently to just not react or to tell her calmly she's being rude as I know she's not doing it deliberately.

I know it's hard but try to only help her with what she's asked for help with, if you hear yourself taking over then take a step back. If you feel a criticism on your lips then try to rephrase it (don't point out the knot, just offer to do her hair). Even have a chat with her and tell her you know you can be controlling at times but you're working on it and could she be patient with you.

If you sort this now then the teenage years might not be so tough.

My DD is only 3, so we’re not at this stage yet. She does completely ignore me though, as seems to be the 3yo MO.

Anyway, I remember as a pre-teen and teenager, when my mum used to point things out about my appearance - nothing unkind, just things like, if my ponytail was a bit messy, or I’d put mascara all over my face. I used to find it really embarrassing for some reason . I think, at a certain point, I just desperately wanted to be a grown up and something about my mum telling me to fix my hair made me cringe! I think it’s just part of growing up.

I guess my only advice would be to pick your ‘battles’.

My DD is 10 yrs old (nearly 11) and I've found this book incredibly helpful. It helps you diffuse situations and word your comments so that they don't feel like criticism. Ignore the American-isms, the advice is sound.

www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1848123094/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+and+listen+so+kids+will+talk&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1516700098&sr=8-1

Regardless, of how it helps with your DD, I can recommend that everyone reads it - the communication skills now help me with my approach to everyone.

Good luck

Why are you helping a year 5 child with her homework? Judging by her reaction also you a probably overbearing. Just stop trying to help her all the time. If she wants help she will ask for it.

I have found that the less I am involved in homework the better.

Mine are now 15, 12 and 10, and I learned with my eldest to step right back from homework. We had homework battles in year 5, half of saturday spent trying to get him ot do it. In the end I set a homework time and space (ie no screens etc) and it was up to him, if he didn't do it, he was accountable to school, not to me. In fatc he only really started taking it seriously when school did and those who hadn't done it had to stay in at playtime.

He could ask for help, I helped him with his question, and then asked if there was anything else. Minimal involvement, while making it clear that we wanted him to do it.

I have found the same with other stuff. Would you lilke help is often met with NOOO. Then five minutes later they come and ask for help. Backing off and letting them do it is a great parenting skill. Acknowledging that they don't always do it right, and they don't always do it as well as they would with help, is acknowledging that we have to let go and let THEM do it.

Acknowledging that they don't always do it right, and they don't always do it as well as they would with help, is acknowledging that we have to let go and let THEM do it.

This is something I struggle with, letting them get on with it but knowing that with a little help or some suggestions it would be better. It’s a fine balance between being an involved supportive parent and being overbearing especially as they get older.

I found Y5 and the change in my DD v hard work indeed.

After a recommendation on here bought "Get out of my life but first take me and Alex to town" DD only just now a teen but I have found insights from the book so helpful this last couple of years.

There is a version of How To Talk for teens I'm considering upgrading to soon.

Mine are younger but in terms of respect and politeness I try to treat them in the same way as I treat anybody else. For example, pointing out that someone's hair is messy is a bit sensitive, so I might say to my DD (4), 'I can fix your hair if you like?' rather than 'it's messy,' (which is rude). If she doesn't want me to fix it, that's fine, it's her hair - I wouldn't let someone else fix my hair for me. Likewise if a fellow adult asks for help on a project, I make sure to reassure them that I don't think the work they've done is shit - I am as kind as possible with offering criticism - same for my children.

Children are desperate for their parents' approval - think of it as being the same as having the big boss in charge of your promotion evaluating everything about you, only ten times worse because you also love and adore that boss and that boss is a bit annoying and restrictive at times!