Please help me understand this - mothers and daughters

[oaktreee]

Hi

I feel like I'm too close to this situation to see the wood for the trees and would love some insight from anyone that can help or understands what's going on here. I've been struggling for a while now with the relationship with my 9 year old daughter.

When I try to help her or point something out to her she gets so angry and frustrated. It's as though she can't bear to listen to my advice, tries to walk away every 3 seconds while I'm talking to her, shows how frustrated she is while I'm speaking by doing things like kicking the table leg or trying to bore her pencil into something.

It's mostly homework related (Y5). If I try and help, even when she asks for my help, she just gets so short tempered and angry with me. It's not always homework - it's other small insignificant things like if I tell her there's a knot at the back of her plait but I can help her fix it really quickly and easily, she'll look at me like I've deliberately tried to hurt her, rather than just accept my help. Then take out the entire plait and scruff up her hair!

I just feel like she views me as her enemy. If anyone else tries to help her (babysitter, family member, teacher, friend), it's not an issue. If I try and help she gets so defensive.

I don't know how to handle this better, and I don't really understand what she's feeling. Is she angry because she doesn't want me to see her weaknesses? Am I too overbearing?

Really need to find a fix soon as it's damaging our relationship. When she reacts so negatively to my help I feel rejected, and then I either feel very upset or start lecturing her in anger about how rude she is.

You could be talking about my DD (9). She also has ASD and has developed smelly pits, so the hormones are definitely at play.

Could you put her on the naughty step for 9 minutes. I know it’s for younger kids but sometimes it if useful for bigger ones. I put my almost 12yo on there very occasionally.

Sorry haven't read every response but am posting because I was/am that daughter and yes, right or wrong, she's probably sensitive to your comments and feels them as criticism. I have a loving a caring mother but still feel it now when she even asks a particular question, I can feel it as a criticism. E.g. Do you ever get a pedicure? When I'm sitting barefoot. I'm probably oversensitive.

Special time together would be lovely as suggested and also big her up a bit, I knew my mum thought I was great and well able but she never really said it/gushed at all.

I am reading Untangled by Lisa Damour. Very insightful.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0198PUVBA/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21

Definitely don't put her on the naughty step How humiliating.

I get asked for help and anything I say is dismissed almost immediately or is wrong. It’s a relief to hear I’m not alone.

caper- bananas! Unless it's your job, in which case it's a bananas job.

If my dc head in that direction I back off, make them laugh or give them some affection (in whatever way I'm allowed to do that according to the child and who is watching).
They need some power.

My 15 year old has had this attitude to me since she was around 9 and I used to let it really upset me. Last couple of years she's been like it to my husband too. Iv realised there's no point being annoyed and now my husband and I try to make a joke out of it and more often than not she ends up laughing but tries not too. Know how you feel though it's so upsetting. I reckon it's hormones. Mind you my 18 yr old dd has never been like this.

"They don't want to need us. They want to grow up. And help from mummy isn't like help from anyone else because it is too much like being a baby."

^This^!!! I was exactly like your daughter when I was a child, longing to be grown up and independent. Thought I knew best. Very proud of myself! Of course the irony now is that I love it when my parents help me or do anything for me now (Im in my 40s). Try to see her behaviour for what it is, even if it is very trying/ upsetting at times. She is only trying to assert some independence.

I don't have any daughters but my 8 yo son is like that.

It's part of the relationship changing I think. You have to move and shift away, you're not in the guiding leader role any more where she follows unquestioningly, and she'll feel that you're in her way if you try to act like that. Now it's more like you're swimming/flying by her side and just nudging her gently when she gets off course or she'll look to you when she's unsure of the next direction, and then you can show her - but as others have said, stick to the question! Try not to get drawn into the old, leading role where you have to shape every part. She's shaping her own things a lot now and she's going to make mistakes, that's how she learns.

She will still need you for a long while yet but not in the same way. Now is the time to learn to hang back and respect her space, knock on the door if you like when you want to help or guide rather than assuming you're welcome at all times. And see the young woman you've put the work into raising blossom - slowly, in spurts, but she will.

Tbh I think tween girls are just arseholes most of the time

I was like this as a child. I wanted independence, and felt dominated and criticised. This was about me as much as my mum. I would try and give her independence whenever you can. I think it is the older equivalent of the toddlers no to everything.

It really depends what kind of advice you’re offering her and why. I’m 43 and Christ my mum can still irritate me like no other being. Honestly in the space of 5 mins I can be told my car tyre looks flat, I look tired, there’s a dirty mark on my coat and my hair has got “ a bit long” - all said with love but no less irritating for it.

I’ve 3 daughters aged 12 to 6, I don’t offer advice on hair, clothes etc unless specifically asked for it. They do their homework, I check the youngest and help the 10 year old if she needs it but it’s her work not mine. I sometimes look at a bit of written work she’s finished and think oh it would be better if you use that phrase/word but it’s not mine to “fix” - that’s how they learn.

And some kids are naturally more independent and desperate to do things

bertie

Your post had mere me cry

Like pps I am your daughter but aged 30, married with my own home although no children. My mum has admitted fairly recently that she STILL feels that any mistake I make should be turned into a 'learning opportunity' by her. I now avoid telling her anything about anything in my life which has gone wrong as she uses it to lecture me about my choices and what I should have done differently.

You sound lovely and caring and not as bad as my DM and I'm sure everything comes from a place of love but I think it might be worth backing off a bit, letting her make her own mistakes and not feeling the need to correct and teach at every opportunity but sometimes just sympathising or not picking up on things. Good luck!

Looking forward to that with my 2DDs!

Tbh I have the same with my mum and I'm 38! I have it with my older sis too. Even when I know they are right I just hear their advice different.

I think the crux is: if you give advice to a friend (over coffee for example) you will sound different, because a) you don't expect the friend to take the advice immediately and exactly as prescribed and b) it's not vital to you if your friend does not follow the advice at all.
I think with children it matters so much and is often immediate. It feels like being shackled. And the more you then struggle against that advice the more advice you get! :)
Focus on quality time without advice. And with homework try and be less available, helpful but not so emotionally engaged.

(I will try and take my own advice from now on too)

Puberty is a fecking nightmare in this house.

We are constantly battling to see good in our raging hor"moaned" up the eyeballs DD. You just have to pray for the calm times and remember why you love her!!

Solidarity for your sanity.

Thanks everyone, there's some good advice on here like letting her know I need her help sometimes too. It's also good to know I'm not alone and this isn't necessarily a daughter thing. Bertie your post is so beautifully written, I will try to swim alongside her more often ...

I am a control freak at heart so when she asks a question on one part of her homework I will often go on to look through the whole thing. Must be incredibly annoying for her! Making her laugh in these situations will definitely help us

Why is it humiliating taking 9 calm minutes to think about how she got into the situation? And then to have a quick chat and cuddle and it’s resolved.

Aww Heart - it's weird this parenting thing isn't it? I'm pregnant with DC2 so it's such a contrast having a 9yo as well and I'm quite conscious of the change of him into adolescence because I'm a bit anxious I haven't done enough and sometimes it feels like this time is the most important bit, and sometimes it feels like it's basically too late to change the course, and from here on we just have to hope that all of the foundations we laid when they were younger are secure enough.

I also read this the other day which has been on my mind a lot (I love her writing). www.renegademothering.com/2018/01/04/16-years-mother-ive-learned-lied/

It’s a bit like when they are toddlers and they want to become independent but don’t quite have the skills, and go Ape Shit if you help them put a sock on

Just be there when they ask, and try not to feel upset when they don’t need you (though it’s hard!)

In fact go and listen to “Slipping Though My Fingers” by ABBA. That sums it up!

OP, take a step back. My mother used to micromanage everything I did - I couldn't ask for help with one question on homework because she'd then go on and on and on about all the rest of it and it was indescribably irritating.

If she asks for homework help, ask her what she specifically needs help with. Do that and ONLY that. Do not start going "Oh what have you done so far, what is this, how did you do this, and then there will be this bit too" because it will inevitably start the frustration.

Don't point out stuff like her hair or her clothes or whatnot, all that will be doing to her is making her feel stupid or silly and then she's more likely to lash out because at 9, she doesn't have the control quite yet to point out why something upsets her if she's already a bit upset.