To think this is a scam?

[Abi35]

Just to be clear, this isn’t an anti-homeless people/beggars post, I’m just wondering whether this in particular is a scam of some sort.

My daughter is at university in central London, and to get there from her halls she walks down the Kingsway, where there is a big four way junction. A lot of pedestrians gather at this junction waiting to be able to cross.

She says that sometimes, while she’s waiting to cross the road, a woman will come up to her, address her as ‘sister’, and either beg her for money or ask her to buy her an Oyster card. This lady said she needed to get to Sevenoaks.

It’s not always the same woman, but they’re always Eastern European and aged about 40-60 (she thinks), and are always wearing a children’s rucksack. Sometimes there’s only 1, sometimes there’s a group.

My daughter does give change to homeless people, but she feels very uncomfortable when these women approach her.

AIBU to think it’s an organised scam, or are they genuinely in need?

Shelter are a bit crap. They have a very unhelpful helpline but are essentially a political lobbying organisation. And a very ineffective one of those too.

A few years ago I used to buy the Big Issue regularly. Until one Christmas eve - i went to Waitrose, and bought the Christmas Issue from the female Eastern European outside. It was £3.50, so I gave a fiver, not expecting any change (not disappointed there!)
I got loads of bargains in waitrose (half hour before closing on christmas eve) and had another fiver in change, so as I came out I thought I'd buy another Issue (maybe a late Christmas present/silly tree present). She took my money, (no change) and grabbed my sleeve. She was being evicted tomorrow (christmas Day?) and needed £80 otherwise she and her 4 children would be homeless.... could i help?

I mumbled something and broke away and went home. In that Issue was a letter from John Bird, stating how 'good' I should be feeling, having 'helped the homeless', how warm and fuzzy etc. I was livid, the last thing I felt was warm and fuzzy; I felt conned, stupid, helpless...I emailed the Big Issue telling them that I'd been grabbed and guilted, and this was the opposite of how buying the Big Issue should make me feel.

No answer. So 2 months later I emailed again. This time I got a generic answer ; thanks for buying, sorry for your experience, not how it should be etc. They even said i shouldn't have paid over the cover price for the magazine - I have never got change; I assume this is why it's priced £1.50, or £2.50 or whatever, rather than a whole pound.

I'll never buy it again, because of her. Although I do give to charities.

Yes, why are so many Big Issue sellers Eastern European? Why would you move somewhere to be 'homeless'? There's a woman who has been selling the 'Big Issue' for over 10 years in Cockermouth and Keswick. Doesn't work as a leg-up then, does it? And she does live locally and isn't homeless at all. So I don't buy the Big Issue now but just give to recognised charities.

It's because selling the Big Issue counts as self employment and allows you to access in work benefits.

So nothing to do with being homeless and supported to come off drugs then. Thought not. Not any more, anyway

So nothing to do with being homeless and supported to come off drugs then. Thought not. Not any more, anyway grin

More to do with dealing drugs these days. Gives dealers a cover to hang round city centres.

This rang alarm bells from when I was a student - ahem - a few thirty years ago.

Also UCL and frequently gangs of Eastern European women, often with kids.

They used to wander up and down through the Bloomsbury Theatre coffee shop, which then was very long and thin, along the side of the theatre with big windows all the way along the street. They would always make loads of money as many of the students were a soft touch. However very few of them stayed for long enough to see the beggars decide it was the end of their lunch shift, at which point they would bundle out of their skanky beggar coats, shake out their hair, put on their lippy, get out their very nice handbags from their scruffy bags and hail a taxi to take them home or wherever... They would then be back there in their raggy coats a week later. Needless to say those students that saw this became a lot more hard hearted abound handing over their cash but because it was a quick in and out place for many, the beggars always seemed to make plenty of money and kept returning for the years I was there.

Blimey Elton how depressing

There used to be a man who hung around outside my halls in a city centre uni, begging for money to get to hospital (there was a hospital about 10 minutes walk away but never mind). He used to show everyone a large ulcer on his leg.

Some Americans moved into our halls - they were very generous. One of them actually got a taxi and went with the man to the hospital to make sure he got there ok. We were all laughing because we thought he'd been taken in, and wondered how the beggar felt having to make his own way back from hospital.

Anyway we didn't see this beggar again for a few weeks, but when he returned, the leg with the ulcer had been amputated below the knee - so possibly he was genuine after all.

[This was 15 years ago when beggars and homeless people were rare in this city - now there are so many that it feels unsafe and no joking matter]

The one who used to make me really sad was a guy who scuttled up and down outside Russell Square station, always badly dressed in dirty clothes and with his hair on end, asking people for 20p. 'Have you 20p? 20p?' If you gave him 20p he'd start asking you for £1. If he managed to scrape £1 together he'd rush off to the nearest corner shop and buy a scratch card

Yes, why are so many Big Issue sellers Eastern European? Why would you move somewhere to be 'homeless'?

They aren't homeless. They sell the Big Issue so they can be classed as "self employed" for benefit purposes. This opens them to be able to claim the full spectrum of benefits such as LHA, working tax credit, child tax credit, child benefit etc. Most of them would earn so little selling the Big Issue that it wouldn't be worth it without this opening to the UK benefits system.

Also they are ethnic Roma, not Romanians. Most Romanians seem to hate them.

Ignore and don’t stop to engage. There are many charities in london working with vulnerable people. Better to make a donation to them.

FFS the Big Issue has a code of conduct and mentors its vendors. Vendors all have badges, and they can lose their badges/pitches for bad behaviour and/or harassing the public.
It is sometimes the case that scammers get hold of one or two copies of the paper and use it to beg with ('I can't actually give you the paper because it's my last one) but this is not the fault of the legit vendors.
Many vendors do move on to find work elsewhere, but please bear in mind that selling the paper is and always has been a legitimate job. Vendors are not begging, they are working.

Also they are ethnic Roma, not Romanians. Most Romanians seem to hate them.

Not all Roma are like that though either. A lot of them are builders and I know some who are alright.

FFS the Big Issue has a code of conduct and mentors its vendors. Vendors all have badges, and they can lose their badges/pitches for bad behaviour and/or harassing the public.

This is absolute bollocks. It's basically just something that they stick on their website to placate people. They don't actually give a shiny shit. They've always been very clear that they're not that bothered if their vendors are doing things which are not strictly legal like benefit fraud.

Vendors are not begging, they are working

Is it not begging when I am faced daily with ‘please miss, please buy, I need to feed my children, please buy the paper miss’. I walk past this lady on way to work and she says the exact same thing every time. Feels like begging to me!

In the 70s I worked in an unemployment benefit office. I always said I would rather treat 100 arseholes like gentlemen than risk treating one gentleman like an arsehole. I stick by that

I work for a homeless charity, and the best thing to do is to give to a homeless charity - we make sure the money goes where it is needed. Money given directly to street homeless/beggars often enables funding of drug and alcohol habits. Sad but true. And homeless people don't usually beg, and beggars are usually not homeless. They do it because it's a very lucrative, easy income.

We spread the word that: It's OK to say NO.

FFS the Big Issue has a code of conduct and mentors its vendors. Vendors all have badges, and they can lose their badges/pitches for bad behaviour and/or harassing the public.

The Big Issue don't seem to give a shit that the sellers have now been taken over by non-homeless Roma and pushed out a lot genuine sellers. I was speaking to a seller the other day (non-Roma) who said they had lost their long term plot to a Roma who gets a lot of money from begging and gets things like nappies bought for her from gullible middle class buyers.

The Roma sellers also have organised gangs involved and threaten other sellers off the best pitches.

*Flowerpot1234

As other posters have warned, we need to be careful when you refuse to give these East European scammers money, they tend to turn nasty. If you ever get stuck at the traffic lights on the North Circular and get dirty water poured all over your car by the East European women (who give the money to the bloke who appears from the side road twice a day), get ready to wind up your windows and create a good gap and a get away otherwise they kick your car, try to smash your window and have a bottle of god-knows-what which they spray at anybody who says "no thanks, no.. no... ".*

Fuck me. It’s surprising no one has got out and battered her. Mind you, I drive round the NC twice a day and haven’t encountered her

FFS the Big Issue has a code of conduct and mentors its vendors. well I can tell you that they were not interested in the vendor who asked for £80 off me. Didn't want to know details, where/when, nothing. Just told me the same as this^ 'the Big Issue has a code of conduct and mentors its vendors.'

Anyone read the book about Bob the Cat? The Big Issue weren't interested in doing right by him either.

Similar happened to me when I was first a student in London. I think the story was she'd come from Ireland for an abortion and needed money to find somewhere to sleep for the night. I was sincerely troubled for her, but wasn't going to give her any money as I was sure it wasn't necessary. I was saying she couldn't sleep on the streets, there was provision for her, let's go to the police station, they'd know what to do - she walked off! Made me chuckle when I realised it was a scam. Better that than her story was true, or that I was out of pocket.

I remember the Sheffield one. It was quite a while ago. She had a crap memory though- would ask me just about every other day for her train fare to Derby!!