To think this is a scam?

[Abi35]

Just to be clear, this isn’t an anti-homeless people/beggars post, I’m just wondering whether this in particular is a scam of some sort.

My daughter is at university in central London, and to get there from her halls she walks down the Kingsway, where there is a big four way junction. A lot of pedestrians gather at this junction waiting to be able to cross.

She says that sometimes, while she’s waiting to cross the road, a woman will come up to her, address her as ‘sister’, and either beg her for money or ask her to buy her an Oyster card. This lady said she needed to get to Sevenoaks.

It’s not always the same woman, but they’re always Eastern European and aged about 40-60 (she thinks), and are always wearing a children’s rucksack. Sometimes there’s only 1, sometimes there’s a group.

My daughter does give change to homeless people, but she feels very uncomfortable when these women approach her.

AIBU to think it’s an organised scam, or are they genuinely in need?

It's not a scam. They are beggars.

Matron! We've got a live one.

Lol!

As other posters have warned, we need to be careful when you refuse to give these East European scammers money, they tend to turn nasty. If you ever get stuck at the traffic lights on the North Circular and get dirty water poured all over your car by the East European women (who give the money to the bloke who appears from the side road twice a day), get ready to wind up your windows and create a good gap and a get away otherwise they kick your car, try to smash your window and have a bottle of god-knows-what which they spray at anybody who says "no thanks, no.. no... ".

Shelter advises people never to give money to individuals. Far better to donate to a charity that helps those in need

I'm sure that's good advice in general (they're the professionals) but it's not always applicable. We've got to use judgement and sense when dealing with actual humans rather than statistics.

For example, I recently got chatting to a guy who'd had his tent blow away in the storms the previous night. He didn't ask me for money, I'd just offered him a hot drink and, while talking, I asked him if he was able to stay in the multi storey overnight or not. That's when he said he was saving for the tent. I asked him if he knew about a winter night shelter that the local churches run here and he said yes but there were only 25 places for over 200 rough sleepers.

So, personally, I think my decision to give him the money he still needed for the tent was a better use of that money than to donate it to the charity that can only help a fraction of the people who need it. I know the more money the charity gets the more space etc it might be able to get to increase the number of people it can take. But this man needed somewhere to sleep then and there - not in a year's time.

Some years ago there was a group of women with babies that would swarm the cars that stopped in Gloucester Place (NW1) asking for money, banging on the windscreens and windows. At night and in the dark.

There were many complaints and it stopped, but not until it had been in the press.

You couldn't get away from beggars even then because if you went in the other direction (Baker St.) you were threatened with dirty water and an even dirtier squeegee. At least they were offering something in return for cash.

I would be very wary of anyone pestering me but then I have had some bad experiences in the past.

Yep it's a scam and it's a pretty common one at that, tell her to not give them anything and keep her bag close.

Oh yeah. Because obviously dropping into conversation he'd lost his tent was guaranteed to be honest.

@Trashboat - quite a jump to make it a 'feminist issue'.

Wow, someone's defensive!!!

I wasn't making it a feminist issue fgs. I was just stating that as part of an organised gang, the women who beg won't see much of the money they collect. Jeez!

Before Oystercards there used to be bus "saver strips" where you could buy 10 tickets in advance for a slight discount. I used to get people begging for "bus fare home". If I offered them a saver strip ticket, most of them would react with disgust and quite often change their story to "oh and I also need to get a train so I need cash."

It most likely is an organised gang. Eastern european women are promised work in the UK, trafficked here and then trapped into doing this kind of thing. Your dd is right to feel sorry for them but giving them money won't help them.

Common ones we've been warned about by local police (London and Oxford):

• Two Eastern Europeans bump into you, one is carrying an ice cream. They make a huge fuss over cleaning you up while the other pickpockets you

• Someone with very broken English asks you a long and involved question about directions to an Embassy or other official building. While you're listening their partner either picks your pockets or steals from your bag

• Moped muggers: If you carry your bag on the 'traffic' side of you while walking down the pavement they pull slowly up behind you, grab your bag and whizz off with it

And yes, if you travel regularly enough and tend to be in the same place at the same time each day you soon learn to recognise the people who are always 50p short of their bus fare to Reading, or the price of a stamp, or the prescription charge...

There was a TV documentary a while ago - incidentally presented by a Romanian - all about Romanian begging scams and the gangmasters who run them. The documentary also showed some of the palatial villas they gangmasters had 'earned' in this way.

While I do feel sorry for anyone working for such gangmasters, very likely for peanuts, I do think that giving money is both encouraging and perpetuating the scams.

I get off the tube at Warren Street early in the morning. Around the corner there is usually a group of about a dozen East Europeans having Costa or Pret coffees and a fag whilst one man hands out signs (homeless please help etc) for them. I sometimes see them again in the evening handing back the cash they have collected. I'm afraid this may be a scam.

I’ll tell her to just say no and walk away.

I think she just finds it difficult because she is naturally very kind and doesn’t mind giving the odd bit of change to homeless people, she just doesn’t want her money going to organised gangs.

She’s formed a friendship of sorts with a homeless lady at Euston station (where she goes to do her food shop).

There’s a restaurant there which does discounted hot takeaway dinners for students, so this lady gives my daughter the money, and my daughter uses her student card to buy the discounted dinner for her.

There is a woman near where I work (North London) who stops me a few times a month on my way to the station, she always asks for exact amounts of money for various reasons because she lost her purse (£2, £1.50 etc for a bus, a loaf of bread). Now when I see her coming I shake my head and smile, I don’t think she realises I recognise her now.

She is quite well groomed and attractive so I can see why people would ‘fall’ for it as she doesn’t look like your typical beggar. She is quite jittery and shaky though so I think she is an addict of sorts. I feel bad for her, but know I can’t help

There’s a scam I came across recently where a guy comes up to you get n supermarket car ark saying no he’s local run out of petrol and has his toddler in the car and needs to get home can you give him a pound? I genuinely had no change so couldn’t but saw him approach others and he more luck. Turns out he tours supermarkets doing this so obviously worth his while. He actually approached m3 again about a month later with same story so got told to bugger off

@doraismissing I can't figure out if I have a weird kind of respect for the brass neck of that.

@Abi35, she sounds like a really nice young woman. Although I'm willing to bet there are cheaper places locally than Euston station to do her food shop

Eltonjohn - why ever not? He's sheltering inside a supermarket multi storey carpark and I ask him if he's allowed to stay. He says no, he's only there because his tent blew away in last night's storms and he's trying to get money for a new one. When a) there was a storm last night b) he's in a place with a lot of foot traffic and c) he wasn't asking me for money, we were just talking, I saw no reason not to believe him. Really nice guy who was just in an impossible situation. Ex army - got fired so lost his pension. Degree educated but can't get a job without an address. I'm sure many homeless people are the same. Why would they be lying? It's a possibility of course but no reason for it to be an assumption.

I’ve seen them Dora - I’m often at UCLH for maternity appointments.

I’d recommend not doing a food shop at Euston. Station shops charge a premium! There’s a big Sainsbury’s and Morrison’s at Camden just down the road.

I’d recommend not doing a food shop at Euston. Station shops charge a premium! There’s a big Sainsbury’s and Morrison’s at Camden just down the road.

^^ and an aldi.

If a few of them went together, the journey back with bags would be cheaper than a bus in a taxi.

Yes, because when people tell lies they always make an effort to tell completely implausible ones.

maniac when people stop to talk and pretend they're interested people know that they're a soft touch who is probably quite credulous (which you clearly are) so they will drop into conversation a sob story about how they need a big ticket item because they know you'll stump up the cash for the whole thing. Because you're really gullible.

I can understand the charities that help homeless people saying never give money to individuals but to give it to a charity instead. But my problem with this is that I don't know how much of the money I donate actually goes to helping those who need it,rather than lining the pockets of a CEO or managers etc,who are probably on grossly inflated salaries. I may be wrong and am prepared to admit that I am,but this issue always worries me with charities.

Raspberry, your best bet is to donate to small local charities which provide 'ground level' support. They usually have very few overheads and are run mainly by volunteers. It's the big name charities ahem, Shelter who tend to syphon it to management.

Tara336 I had a similar experience last summer. A guy approached me at a bus terminus,asking me for £5,saying that his wallet had been stolen along with his Oyster card,and he had no means of getting home,he couldn't even phone anyone as he was out of credit. I don't why but for some reason I didn't believe him. I watched as he had more luck asking other people. Anyway,a couple of days later,I was in my local cornershop,and when I walked outside,this same guy approached me,and gave me the same spiel! I looked at him with disbelief,he obviously didn't recognise me. I said to him 'You gave me this story the day before yesterday,at Heathrow bus station'. He swore at me,yanked the hood up on his coat and scarpered off.

Elton That sounds like a good advice. Shelter! Who'd have thought it of THEM?