To believe “wind the bobbin up” is inappropriate and to ask my child’s Nursery not to sing it.

[coconuttella]

Wind the bobbin up originated in the cotton mill towns of the north of England in Victorian times. As anyone who knows a bit about a bit history can tell you, the cotton mills were horrendous places which horrifically exploited women and children, forcing them to do dangerous work in appalling conditions for little pay.

How can it be right to trivialise these horrors by getting children to sing a light-hearted ditty about it... It’s offensive to the memory of all those who suffered these horrendous conditions and experienced serious injury or even death as a result of hideously exploitative working practices.

And here we go again..... Snowflake alert!!! sounds klaxon

Posters still missing the point of the thread, wouldn't be because they failed to read it all or at the very least the OP's contributions, would it?

"Cinderella" is incredibly dark too. The stepsister slices off her HEEL to fit into the shoe but is caught because it drips blood everywhere.

Also there's a school of thought that says they should be fur slippers as glass slippers is a mistranslation. Makes more sense when you consider some fairy tales came from Russia where it was bloody freezing!!

When I was little I had a book of Eastern European kids stories that was my mums when she was little. Very dark and scary!

Yes fekko! Somewhere I have my grandma's old book of fairy tales, which are categorised by country - Russia and the Scandinavian countries in particular were v harsh.

I also have her book of German kids' poems (in translation) - my goodness they liked to teach children how to behave!! Augustus who wouldn't eat his "nasty" soup (he was like a little bit of thread, and on the fifth day, he was dead), or the thumb sucking child who sucked his thumb when his nanny was out and the thumb snatcher came and snipped his thumbs right off (complete with illustration) - blimey!!

germanstories.vcu.edu/struwwel/daumen_e.html

And here's Augustus for good measure!

germanstories.vcu.edu/struwwel/kaspar_e.html

it’s offensive to the memory of all those who suffered these horrendous conditions and experienced serious injury or even death as a result of hideously exploitative working practices.

In the event that it's pretty unlikely the nursery will stop singing the song in favour of teaching the children about the history of the cotton mills, I would argue that, the song may in fact raise awareness of the issue. I am far more likely to talk to my now older sons about the origins of the song when we hear my younger nieces and nephews singing it. No song, no reminder.

It is actually astonishing how this thread highlights who can't be arsed to read before rushing to chip in their tuppenceworth!

I like the old fairy stories because at least they all had a point. The princess stories were usually cautionary tales to women and had some sort of moral point (even if its not what we would agree with now)

Disney totally destroyed all of that. Look at the little mermaid. Used to be a cautionary tale about a young girl sacrificing her identity to try and win the love of a man shed met once. It doesnt end well for her. He cheats on her and she dies and becomes foam on the waves.

Disney have made it into a tale about sacrificing your identity to win the love of a man you met once being a brave and romantic thing to do that is indeed the road to true love.....

now thats offensive

Rebecca I had books of fairy tales/fables when I was young and they were the sort of versions you are talking about, no fluffy Disney endings!

Hansel and Gretel was very dark from what I recall.

The one that sticks in my memory to this day is the one about the red ballet shoes, once the girl put them on she couldn't stop dancing and eventually her feet were cut off with an axe and the feet and shoes danced off and this was illustrated in the book with the feet dancing away dripping blood and the girl hobbling on those old wooden style crutches!

I remember the red shoe one!!

I suppose I can see why the endings were changed for cartoons - but I do think fairy tales should be taught in the original when children are older. They're part of our literary history!

I agree with you Rebecca, I enjoyed the original fairy tales, loved the Brothers Grimm.

I don't think you should ask your nursery to stop singing it as you'll stand out as odd. I don't think your child will be offended by it. Lots of nursery rhymes and fairy tales are pretty grim. I understand what you're saying but I think you should just let your child enjoy the rhythm and actions.

This is turning into a great thread. I am sure I had a Ladybird book with the Rapunzel story where the prince has his eyes gouged out by thorns and had to wander the world blind - or did I imagine it?

I remember being terrified of Little Red Riding Hood - those Ladybird illustrations were v powerful for an imaginative child.

My son has a book of nursery rhymes that includes ‘soldier, soldier’...genuinely didn’t know the last verse of that until 18 months ago!

Also, our baby centre music signs ‘where’s the dinosaur’ to the tune of ‘wind the bobbin’ which cancels out any possible offence for cotton mill workers! 😂 xx

sings 🙄

I have not watched most of the Disney films, thankfully so just know the original stories.

i think it's important children know that children in the UK used to work in mills and up chimneys and on farms. Even Ring a ring of roses tells them about the plague I think.

Navigator the illustrations in those old books certainly didn't hold back did they and you are right the Prince's eyes were pierced by thorns and he wandered the world blind until he found Rapunzel again and her tears restored his sight, she had also given birth to twins in the meantime.

Someone mentioned The Little Mermaid, I haven't seen the Disney version, the story I remember is she had her tongue cut out so she could have legs and then the Prince abandoned her. The Water Babies wasn't a particularly pleasant story either.

And when she walked on her feet it felt as if she were being cut by knives and she left footprints of blood behind her!

Yes Rebecca that's the story I remember!

This is a brilliant thread, but for the love of God will some of you read it and see how it’s developed instead of just the first post and jumping to the end.

My mother was a French teacher and had 12" singles of Fairy tales in French. Red Riding Hood had ripping, snarling noises and screams when the wolf are Grandma. My twin and I loved that one!

Ate not are

Amazed that this thread is still going?

It seems that most nursery rhymes and fairy stories have, or are purported to have, lurid and grissly histories that far outweigh ‘wind the bobbin up’! (Whose back story I basically contrived to make my point).