To believe “wind the bobbin up” is inappropriate and to ask my child’s Nursery not to sing it.

[coconuttella]

Wind the bobbin up originated in the cotton mill towns of the north of England in Victorian times. As anyone who knows a bit about a bit history can tell you, the cotton mills were horrendous places which horrifically exploited women and children, forcing them to do dangerous work in appalling conditions for little pay.

How can it be right to trivialise these horrors by getting children to sing a light-hearted ditty about it... It’s offensive to the memory of all those who suffered these horrendous conditions and experienced serious injury or even death as a result of hideously exploitative working practices.

Might add that I disgraced myself when once taking Gdd to a singalong session. Thought I knew from way back the words to Miss Polly Had A Dolly, so sang out lustily with 'The doctor came with HIS bag and his hat...
Oh, the shame - I just escaped being chucked out and told never to darken their doors again.

Jack Sprat could eat no fat
His wife could eat no lean
And so between the both of them
They licked the platter clean.

Hmph poor woman suffered his controlling behaviour and believed she could only eat fatty meat, she should definitely LTB

This little pig went to market,
This little big stayed at home.....

Even that could start a discussion about my great grandmother who kept pig in the back garden for bacon and help my children understand just our family's history and indeed where pork comes from.

Offensive to the ‘memory’

Even thoughts can be offended these days it appears.

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is about a drugs trip. - "up above the world so high".

Humpty Dumpty is a Georgian name for a street prostitute, who sometimes from high class backgrounds. - "...had a great fall" (from grace). They used to wait for custom sitting on walls. The king's horses and king's men of course refer to the vicars/priests etc, trying to get them to change their ways. Some of the vicars had very large front teeth and looked a bit like horses.

Ring-a Roses isn't about the plague. It's actually about a maker of Christmas wreaths who added some walnuts to his creation and then died from a nut allergy.

Row Row Row Your Boat is about rowing a boat down a stream.

Actually I think "Row row row your boat/gently down the stream" is a metaphor depicting the inevitable slide into poverty of the lower middle and working classes as a result of the inexorable rise of ultra capitalism and the corporate greed of the banks and unregulated land / ownership (like that greedy parasite Fergus Wilson) .

Heading 'down the stream' symbolises our collective descent into penury, starvation and zero hours contracts on minimum wage (or less); 'the idea that 'life is but a dream' indicates that these days we can merely dream of owning our own property because they are all owned by the Fergus Wilsons of this world.

oops that should have said 'land/property ownership'

This thread has been an exquisite exercise in:

How to wind-up the permanently outraged on MN

How to spot the posters who are too important to read the whole thread or even the OP's updates before posting their earth shattering opinions.

OK, I'll take back the . 😆

For me, the question is this.

If we make up fake stories about other posters trying to ban nursery rhymes, is that all we are doing? Because if so it’s harmless. Fill your boots, we know where the hide button is.. Is it even useful? Because sometimes people claiming to be bullied are bullies themselves and that needs exposing.

But if we totally reject the idea that society changes, isn’t that going too far? what if someone merrily joins in on the theme of “catch a nigger by his toe”? Will you all spot the difference? Or will people be emboldened to chime in and say “we sang that and we survived”?

I genuinely don’t know the answer.

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if there's any truth to the dit that Grimms sleeping beauty woke whilst giving birth to twins, having been impregnated whilst in a comatose state? I've never been able to cope with reading that one since I heard it

I heard that too (probably in here though). I remember reading the story to my niece and getting to the bit where people’s eyes were geting gouged out by the thorns and thought ‘well this isnt Disney is it?’

If this is serious, you really need some help.

It’s not serious!

Ring a ring of roses is about the Black Plague should we not sing that either?

Actually anyone who knows about history knows the cotton mills were not all bad esp the earlier ones round Derbyshire, they provided a lot of amenities for the workers. Stop being so anacranistic and so stupid generally

But the norm wasn’t like that though. That’s why places like New Lanark were groundbreaking and places we still visit today to wonder at he lives people lived.

Yes, it is a song with a history however we thankfully no longer make children "wind the bobbin up". My family lived in industrial Manchester and I am aware that mills weren't pleasant. Just because the past was grim doesn't mean we should ignore it. What would you prefer? A Beatles song... I'm rather keen on " We all live in a yellow submarine". I don't in all honesty think that any Mum would be that bothered about a child's nursery rhyme...DM ?

I never knew is was about weaving anyway. I just found it grating. Preferred the monkeys jumping on he bed myself.

Ffs. Lucy Lockett who lost her pocket was a prostitute and so was Kitty Fisher.

Let's all pretend everything before yesterday did not happen and we can all live in our sterile, perfect little world.

Why is it all the 'pc gorn mad' types can never be bothered to read anything before throwing in their opinions?

Get a fucking grip

42andcounting yes thats how the story goes, the baby wakes her because its starving and tries to suckle her and sucks out the spindle, and then as far as im aware the queen bakes the baby in a pie and has the king eat it because she is jealous (the baby is the kings child and he had impregnated sleeping beauty whilst she was unconscious)

I actually prefer that tale to the disney version because at least it doesnt frame itself as a positive romance. The disney version is rendered quite sick by the fact they have made a tale about rape into a romance story about true love.