...to think that this is sex discrimination?

[SignoraStronza]

I was idly chatting to a coach/friend at DD's rugby club, who mentioned that a local private school is going to be going into her (future) secondary comp to offer additional sports coaching. What's in it for them? Apparently one of the reasons is that they're looking to cream off some of the sporting talent and offer scholarships - fair enough i suppose.

DD overheard this, sounded rather enthusiastic about the idea and so I idly had a look at the sports scholarship application form on the school's website.

Only BOYS could apply for Rugby (and cricket) scholarships, but all could apply for hockey athletics, tennis, golf and swimming.
A bit shit really. DD lives and breathes rugby. She's currently training with both the girls U13s and mini U11 teams up to three times a week, really enjoys it and has found her 'thing'. So to have her bubble burst because of archaic ideas that rugby is for boys made her rather crestfallen.

She absolutely plays a blinder in and against U11 teams consisting of all boys + her, and has come up against some rather crappy opinions from one of the dads already, even though she's a actually rather bloody good.

Would you mention this to the schools involved?

I love the way that private schools can maintain a charitable status and continue to be discriminatory.

PatriarchyPersonified so you don't think there's anything wrong with going into a state school and offering activities and/or opportunities for only half the pupils, purely on the basis of sex?
Their stated 'official' justification for doing so would simply be 'community outreach' or some such other bollocks to try and justify their charitable status but seriously, I find it all rather wrong.

My DS is at a private school. Rugby is very big for the boys, but I understand that they are encouraging girls to play.

As others have said, it's all very well having a team but they need other teams to play against and there aren't many around. I also think that there aren't that many girls at school who want to play at the moment.

SignoraStronza

Do you know their stated reason is community outreach, or is that a guess? My issue with this is that it's quite obvious why they are doing the coaching, you even admitted that it was "fair enough". You now complain because it's not benefitting you.

There may even be other reasons why they don't offer mixed rugby coaching sych as staff numbers or insurance costs etc.

I don't think it's automatically unfair that they don't (as a private institution) offer free rugby coaching to girls. The fact they do for all other sports seems to indicate it's not because they are misogynistic bastards.

Yes, I do know both the official reasons for doing the coaching (which have been sold to the state school)and also the unofficial reasons (offering rugby scholarships), as quite openly stated to the club coaches they've sounded out about it.

I'm not necessarily complaining because it wouldn't benefit 'me' but because of the total unfairness and downright sexism of it all. By all means, offer this to single sex state schools, but don't just go bowling into a co-ed school and offer its pupils opportunities that only the boys could potentially take advantage of.

Are you seriously saying that you're unable to see the unfairness of that?

My guess would be that he same school offers sports scholarships for netball which only girls can access.

The community outreach aspect of providing specialist coaching to state schools ticks boxes for the school in maintaining the school's charitable status.

It does just go back to the lack of teams to play against and lack of other girls within a school cohort wanting to play. The club's outside of school offering girls rugby often has to travel further than the boys teams to find opponents as do girls football teams.

SignoraStronza

I think it's unfortunate, not necessarily unfair. It depends on why they aren't offering it to girls, not just the fact they don't.

OK PatriarchyPersonified (oh what an apt username), so as far as you're concerned it's just 'unfortunate' that DD's friends at the secondary concerned can work really hard at a sport, show considerable talent and potential only to be told 'oh no, the sporting and educational opportunity on offer here is reserved for boys only'.
You call it 'unfortunate', but fortunately some people take this kind of sexism seriously.

...and I do understand that its a private school and they can do what they like, but to go scouting among the state school plebs during their own school time whilst only being prepared to give one sex a fair crack at something, is quite frankly, wrong.

SignoraStronza

Did you read my last post? I said it's not necessarily unfair or sexist, it depends on their reasons.

It might be unfair, or it might for understandable reasons like insurance or instructor numbers.

So they should go scouting and give your daughter a 'fair crack', at their own financial expense, even if they don't have a girls rugby team and would gain no benefit from it whatsoever?

That's a pretty entitled viewpoint.

PatriarchyPersonified If they're not willing or able to offer the same opportunities to ALL children that show ability in the area their focussing on, then absolutely - they shouldn't go sniffing around the state school in question.
I can't see that it is an 'entitled' viewpoint and if you really are totally unable to understand that then I'll give up respectfully leave it there.

SignoraStronza

The logical outcome of your viewpoint then is that before they could offer any child a scholarship they would have to establish and maintain a boys and a girls team in every single sport they are scouting for, regardless of the demand, completely at their own expense.

Can't you see how that might hurt other children? The cost would quickly become prohibitive to the point where they may just stop offering scholarships.

That might be your version of 'logic'. I've said already that if they're only going to offer scholarships to boys, then they should only be looking in single sex schools.

I'm not really interested in how they operate their finances or in any of the (presumably current) pupils at their own school that they might 'hurt' by offering equal access for all in all sports.

I hasn’t realised thy girls rugby was so niche! I played at school 11/12 years ago! Both in PE and with the team (I wasn’t that good though tbh). Lots of my (female) friends also played for local rugby clubs and even at county level.

Can she 'identify as a male' for purposes of getting in then change her mind. Seriously, I would complain but probably to late for your DD as there will probably be no female rugby team and it would take time to sort out.

Dd is at a private prep school. Girls are not offered the opportunity to play rugby. They play cricket, hockey, netball, rounders, tennis, swimming and athletics.

Boys do football, rugby, hockey, tennis, swimming and athletics.

One factor here is private schools are increasingly moving away from playing boys rugby on safety grounds so I struggle to see much likelihood of there being a shift to girls rugby as well.

That’s not to say either girls or boys rugby is in decline, girls is absolutely growing, but increasingly that growth is coming from the rugby clubs who are a) better geared up to manage the health and safety side than schools are and b) children playing club rugby are typically there because they want to be, understand the risks and so do their parents. As the game has got faster and we understand the risks more, non-rugby parents are becoming more resistant and schools are finding it hard to field full teams of kids that want to, and are allowed to l, play. And that’s the boys game, so I can’t see a shift to girls playing rugby at private schools when it’s very much declining at schools.

I don’t think it’s a sex discrimination case, schools offer scholarships to strong sportspeople almost as a marketing (School A is better than school B at a certain sport is good advertising to a certain group of parents), and there is much less justification for offering a scholarship for a sport they don’t play other schools at. However, it’s not necessarily the specific sport they are looking for, sometimes it’s just strong athletes. Your rugby playing daughter will probably make a fine hockey defender, so maybe that’s the thing to try and make the most of with these coaching sessions, she can still continue the rugby outside of school and that might even have some value to the private school if she goes on to play at a higher level of women’s rugby, even if it wasn’t played at the school.

I hasn’t realised thy girls rugby was so niche!

I don't believe it is! I've been playing for 20+ years

It’s definitely niche. 27000 regular female players according to the RFU (they are working hard to get that to 100000) vs 180000 regular female netball players and 3000000 regular female footballers according to Sport England.

Rugby is still niche even at the men’s level in school terms.

There's more than one code of rugby...

Obviously it will be area specific but neither the male/female game of either code is niche here

sorry, valid point. Assumed op was talking union as opposed to league. Still niche though although a quick google shows its growing very fast in Australia and NZ, so probably growing here too.

Semantics at to what niche is, but 0.07% of the female population having ever played the game would suggest niche to me.

I’m being daft to call men’s rugby niche at the club level. But rugby is still niche in schools and will become more so, insurance costs will see to that unfortunately.

In terms of a "niche" sport; for me it's a sport that very small numbers play and can be difficult to find a venue or expensive to play.

But rugby is still niche in schools

Again I think it's very area specific. every school around here has at least an A and B team (state and private).

I'm very much on the campaign of not stopping rugby in schools