If you're an unemployed waster then you should have a vasectomy!!!

[sirlee66]

Ben Bradley, an MP, wrote in a blogpost, 6 years ago, that the country would be soon “drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters” if workless families had four or five children while others limited themselves to one or two.
This is what he said:

''It’s horrendous that there are families out there that can make vastly more than the average wage, (or in some cases more than a bloody good wage) just because they have 10 kids. Sorry but how many children you have is a choice; if you can’t afford them, stop having them! Vasectomies are free.

There are hundreds of families in the UK who earn over £60,000 in benefits without lifting a finger because they have so many kids (and for the rest of us that’s a wage of over £90,000 before tax!).

People have to take responsibility for their own lives, and if they are struggling but working hard to help themselves then they should get help. But if they choose to have 10 kids they should take responsibility for that choice and look after them, not expect everyone else to foot the bill!

Families who have never worked a day in their lives having 4 or 5 kids and the rest of us having 1 or 2 means it’s not long before we’re drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters that we pay to keep!''

So What to do you think? Do you agree with Ben Bradley or do you think he is being unreasonable?

I don't think the two children rule was retrospective - was it? So families who already had several children would not be affected.

I don't think it was ever right that people should have felt entitled to have a lot of children they knew they could never afford to support, and have expected the taxpayer to fund them. They may be a small minority, but this sort of thing really riles self supporting parents who might well like more children, but limit their families to what they can afford.

I must say I was irritated when a family I knew - already with 4 children and entirely dependent on benefits - went on to have a fifth. They then wanted a bigger house, courtesy of housing benefit, but by then the limit was a 4 bed, and they already had a 4 bed, 2 bath rented house in a nice area, paid for by the taxpayer.

Notreallyarsed
and have no interest in fuelling your agenda.

My agenda? What, of asking someone who says they disagree with statements of fact how they can disagree? My agenda of basic common sense you mean?

Find someone else to get your kicks from, because I can’t be bothered.
Yep, I thought you were one of those. You know the sort, who disagree with things they don't want to agree with, but have not one drop of evidence of rational argument to back up any of it.

But isn't that, effectively, what happens when a working parent gets made redundant, gets fired, is discriminated against for taking maternity/paternity pay, their company goes bust or re-locates.... etc

Yes these people then become unemployed and will be entitled to benefits.

And please don't tell me that absolutely nobody does this or that DLA/PIP is almost impossible to get, because anyone with sense knows that it just isn't true

Do you have personal experience of trying to claim PIP/DLA? Because it is virtually impossible.

@Flowerpot1234 I have explained several times what I disagreed with. I don’t see how out of date figures are relevant in today’s society.
I don’t agree that his statement represents the vast majority of benefit claimants and I don’t agree that it’s having as much of an effect as you seem to think.

Calling me incoherent and goading me just proves my point that you’re spoiling for a fight. Which is pretty childish really isn’t it?

Timeforanamochango

you will find the housing benefit does not pay all your rent different coucils will have there own prices that they pay for example here for a 2bed you get 525 no matter who your rent is my daughter when she had to leave her house (owner was selling ) she was told to look for a house for 525 that is impossible was told you don't expect us to house you she was born here, the cheapest house she could find was 650 i think they pay 600 for a 3 bed house. at one point she was living with me her then partner his 3 children their daughter me and my son in a small 3 bed house and they still wouldn't house them

"And please don't tell me that absolutely nobody does this or that DLA/PIP is almost impossible to get, because anyone with sense knows that it just isn't true"

I fought for a year to get PIP. I had the backing of my World renowned Consultants, many who have MBE's, but the DWP disagreed. This year I was awarded it. I am better than I was, so if I was entitled to it this year, I was last year.

My Adult DD has LD's and among her peer group it has been very hit and mix who gets an award. The system is nonsensical.

Everyone knows that is the case, but a few deny it, for their own agenda.

Notreallyarsed

@Flowerpot1234 I have explained several times what I disagreed with.
First you posted that you disagreed with 3 points which aren't even made by Bradshaw.
I invited you to make some link between the issues you disagree with and Bradshaw. You couldn't.
So you wrote of other factual statements made by him concerning benefit amounts and number of kids. I asked you for your evidence to disprove his factual statements. You still have not been able to provide anything which would give anybody any reason to disagree with him. Please, go ahead and state how he's wrong if you can.

I don’t see how out of date figures are relevant in today’s society.
Eh? He made the comments 6 years ago. You keep saying £90k isn't possible today because of the benefit cap and therefore he is wrong. But he made the comments 6 years ago when he would have been factually correct. Why do you keep stating he was wrong?

I don’t agree that his statement represents the vast majority of benefit claimants
Where precisely did Bradshaw say that it represents the vast majority of benefit claimants? He did't did he, you just made that up. Why not react to what he actually said, not what you want to react angrily against? I give you yet another opportunity - do you disagree that there are families who do what he said, yes or no?

and I don’t agree that it’s having as much of an effect as you seem to think.
Please quote anything I have said which discusses "as much of an effect as I seem to think". Anything. What effect have I talked about?

Do you have personal experience of trying to claim PIP/DLA? Because it is virtually impossible

Yes, I do - I wouldn't have written what I did if I hadn't - which is why I know that that the "virtually impossible" claim is nonsense

I'm the first to agree it can be complicated, frustrating, distressing even, but virtually impossible - no

Suzy2be - you’re talking about private rental and the LHA allowances, which is completely different as unlike Council Housing, Housing benefit on private rental is capped at a certain rate dependant on area - that was my point. Council Housing has no cap as long as it’s not too big for your needs in which case there’s bedroom tax now.

As for the benefit cap, based on my experience I have to agree with above comment from puzzled, once that came in there was a huge surge in people who were suddenly exempt for one reason or another.

Not related to benefits - but I could get behind the thinking that men that don't pay child support for their existing children should have vasectomies and that really is the definition of a waster in my book whether they have a job or not.

OP, why have you dug up a blog from 6 years ago, and asked MNetters for their thoughts on it, without even hinting at your own thoughts/views?

To be fair the Mirror/Mail dragged it up so brought it back into the spotlight, not sure why

These are in the minority. The government would have you believe it’s rife in this country.

Not really true, as an example only ~40 labour MP's voted against the benefits cap and they did not want undo them in their recent manifesto.

A small amount is lost to these families, compared to say...tax avoidance from the very rich.

Tax avoidance is a legal form of keeping your own money, I hope you don't own any ISA's or pensions

Don't expect other people to support your kids. They have their own to support. That's quite enough for most folk.

Absolutely agree 100%

How lovely to read of an MP not afraid to speak his mind in these daft politically correct times we are living in.

Wouldn't it be great if he had a senior role in the Government ? I think it's a pretty safe bet that he's not a Labour MP!!

Personally I agree with the concept, unemployed people should allowed one child but after two be offered a choice of sterilisation or losing their benefits.

You shouldn't have children you cannot afford. It's bizarre that there are strict rules and affordability checks on taking a mortgage out or financing a car, for example, but none whatsoever on having children. Many people would argue that a child is more important than a car or house!

there is an issue here that does need to be addressed and I think benefits should be capped to two children. It comes back to personal responsibility yet again. Something I think others want to excuse

Some of us see and/or have experienced the bigger picture. I have 3 children - all born within a marriage that went tits up when my ex had an affair. I did my best to protect against that - I am educated, have always worked, married after knowing the ex over 3 years, didn’t have children till we’d been together for 6 years. But it still happened and I still had 3 children 5 and under to care for. The system supports my ex husband not paying maintenance so I am on my own. I work full time as a teacher and still have an entitlement to tax credits etc. I need solid childcare and it costs a fortune. If the state had refused to support one of my children in the early days, financially I would have had to stop working. I couldn’t have afforded the childcare and everything else for the third child.

The removal of support for larger families is going to ensure that some women are stuck in abusive marriages. Some children are going to witness their mothers being mentally, emotionally and physically abused as a result of this policy. It is going to mean that otherwise qualified and willing to work women sit on their backsides as long as they can because they can’t afford the costs of working. And the child mai tenancy system is wholly inadequate.

I take responsibility for my children every single day. No one ever belittles my ex but I am subject to all kinds of shit and judgements because I married someone who turned out less than perfect with whom I had three children. I struggle to see what I did wrong yet I am bashed co tinually.

For anyone interested, here are the exemptions to the benefits cap:

www.gov.uk/benefit-cap/when-youre-not-affected

The Leftie PC snowflake brigade will be outraged at someone having the audacity to speak the truth.

Yep

Dumb Lefties...... What can you do with them?

Don't vote for them?

The removal of support for larger families is going to ensure that some women are stuck in abusive marriages. Some children are going to witness their mothers being mentally, emotionally and physically abused as a result of this policy. It is going to mean that otherwise qualified and willing to work women sit on their backsides as long as they can because they can’t afford the costs of working. And the child mai tenancy system is wholly inadequate.

Absolutely spot on. Sadly I can’t see many people actually giving a shit from way up on their high horses.

Oy, stop maligning Ben Bradshaw, the Labour MP for Exeter! This is about Ben Bradley, the Tory MP for Mansfield. Completely different men!

The moment you start using terms like 'Leftie snowflakes' and 'Dumb Lefties' you lose the argument and reveal yourself as someone who is less than intelligent and cannot be bothered to engage with actual evidence.

I would rather 100 families received benefits they are not entitled to than that one woman and her children were forced by finance to stay in an abusive relationship.

I would rather 100 families received benefits they are not entitled to than that one woman and her children were forced by finance to stay in an abusive relationship.

I agree with this too. The whole overhaul of the system has put many into poverty when they didn’t have to be, and the minority (because it is a minority) screwing the system will not have been affected at all.

Who gives a shit if kids are starving eh? Or forced to stay in an abusive home? As long as some folk can feel morally superior, who cares what the reality is?

I don't think limiting benefits is the answer but I don't think anyone should be choosing to have large numbers of children really. Population is high enough.

@ohreallyohreallyoh

The child cap is not retrospective....