If you're an unemployed waster then you should have a vasectomy!!!

[sirlee66]

Ben Bradley, an MP, wrote in a blogpost, 6 years ago, that the country would be soon “drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters” if workless families had four or five children while others limited themselves to one or two.
This is what he said:

''It’s horrendous that there are families out there that can make vastly more than the average wage, (or in some cases more than a bloody good wage) just because they have 10 kids. Sorry but how many children you have is a choice; if you can’t afford them, stop having them! Vasectomies are free.

There are hundreds of families in the UK who earn over £60,000 in benefits without lifting a finger because they have so many kids (and for the rest of us that’s a wage of over £90,000 before tax!).

People have to take responsibility for their own lives, and if they are struggling but working hard to help themselves then they should get help. But if they choose to have 10 kids they should take responsibility for that choice and look after them, not expect everyone else to foot the bill!

Families who have never worked a day in their lives having 4 or 5 kids and the rest of us having 1 or 2 means it’s not long before we’re drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters that we pay to keep!''

So What to do you think? Do you agree with Ben Bradley or do you think he is being unreasonable?

The MPs comments are not only insensitive but ill informed. For a start it is not that easy to get Vasectomy on the NHS, so the lower income families the comments were directed at could not afford the procedure privately. To say that you can just stop having babies is again a bit of a ill informed comment as contraception is NOT 100% effective and to treat it like it is the wrong attitude, even sterilisation can fail.
We had two children and were using contraception because we didn't want more, but neither of us wanted to have invasive surgery. However I still became pregnant nine years after my last baby with our youngest son. I'm in my forties and I guess some of you will say I should have terminated, but I'd have never been able to live with myself if I had done that. I had an awful pregnancy but I have a happy healthy 8mth old at show for it and he has been a blessing to our family. What really hurts is that he was born a couple of weeks after the Tax Credit cap and we are both on Zero hour Contracts as are many Low income families as businesses no longer employ people fulltime let alone the security of regular part-time hour contracts. I had to go back to work when my baby was only 4mths old because I was 4weeks short of Maternity pay eligibility , this was because I do supply work in schools and dont get paid during school hols not because I'm work shy.
In short the persecution of so called lazy families is having a knock on effect on those of us who are working and struggling and that is unfair. There is no help for those of us who are trying to support our families on Zero hours, we are lumped in the unemployed families.
There is such a strong Anti-family/children rhetoric online these days and it really upsets me, we are trying so hard to keep our little family going. What you have to understand is that families are being forced onto Zero hour contracts and then are abandoned and many are worse off because of the lack of stability. Families need better protection and a better overall attitude towards them in society as Children are not GUCCI handbags or luxury items, they are our future workers and voters and should be treated as such.
Many of these so called lazy families would be working families if childcare was free, I could certainly do more hours if only I could get free childcare. Low income families should not be judged as lazy, or written off rather they should be given REAL help back into work such as better childcare help and secure jobs that can give them pride and stability, rather than starving them and making them homeless how is that acceptable in the 21st Century?

Elton it doesn't have to be full blown socialism, even just a moderate, centrist approach to whatever the hell the government thinks it's doing at the moment would be a huge improvement

But that's not what Corbyn is offering. He's offering full blown socialism and we do not have an economy which is suitable for it. Voting for Corbyn because you want a moderate left wing party is just silly.

The tories are centrist on most metrics economically, and the majority of Europe are neoliberal like our government.

I say labour is the best alternative there is at the moment.

You can say that, many people do not agree with you, even with Labour increasing in the polls JC still comes bottom behind "don't know" on every poll regarding who would make the best prime minister, this isn't down to propaganda or right wing media either before that gets brought out.

Labour are not really offering anything concrete, their costed manifesto was completely busted by many economists and since the GE most of them have been U-turned on because of the realisation of the costs involved.

They didn't want to reverse the benefits cap, nor child tax limit, they are only matching the increase in minimum wage to what the tories are gradually working towards. Getting companies to pay their fair share is a noble soundbite, but until every country on the planet agree to work together they will always use legal loopholes to minimize tax in one country to pay in another.

I think a lot of support for labour isn't based on any political knowledge and just based on "anyone but the tories" rhetoric.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41349409

I've just got back in to see a mention of the important point that 53% of all benefits are currently spent on pensioners; for me, this is something which has to be addressed urgently in any "balancing" which takes place

FWIW I'll also be a pensioner pretty soon and the policies I'd favour would cost me money, but that can't be helped. Obviously it's their massive voting power which has stopped reform so far, but it's a mystery to me how anyone can justify generous, universal, non means tested benefits for a group so financially diverse

In particular I was appalled, before the last election, at the outcry over the very suggestion that seniors should use their own assets to pay for some of their care - and this only after they passed. As examples of sheer, boneheaded selfishness go, that was surely among the worst

Sorry - rant over

In particular I was appalled, before the last election, at the outcry over the very suggestion that seniors should use their own assets to pay for some of their care - and this only after they passed. As examples of sheer, boneheaded selfishness go, that was surely among the worst

What made it bizzare for me was my card carrying momentum friend who's standard go to running up to the GE was about how the Tories never targeting pensioners/triple lock pension, rich pensioners should pay their way etc, but as soon as that policy was mentioned did a massive u-turn. It obviously had nothing to do with her realising that she would be out of pocket herself wrt inheritance that she admitted whilst she had a few too many cocktails

Pension reform is a tricky one though, we cannot treat it like a ponzi scheme with shipping more people in at the bottom as its just kicking the can down the road, we also cannot just cut the current pension and a targeting approach would be political suicide for either part, as with most things its a very grey area

reenactormum I totally agree. Denmark heavily subsidizes childcare and the expectation is that you have up to a year off and then use the subsidized childcare to return to work. The focus isn't on wages but on having a job so you are contributing.

I also detest zero contract hours. I have no idea how the heck anyone can plan for anything when you don't know what your income is. It works for anyone who isn't poor which is why they should be removed. As a business owner I know my human capital needs for the next 12 months at least and wouldn't hire anyway until I had 30 hours of work a week for a FT job. DH has a growing company and has hired ahead of needs. This is what good management does. Zero contract hours enables bad management to stay in business when they should have gone out of business or changed their ways.

my card carrying momentum friend ... did a massive u-turn. It obviously had nothing to do with her realising that she would be out of pocket herself wrt inheritance

Painful, isn't it, to watch them tie themselves in knots when they realise their much vaunted principles might affect them personally?

I agree that pensions are a complex area - even though I dislike the triple lock - but things like winter fuel payments certainly aren't, especially when the mechanisms to target them more carefully already exist, such as through the pension credit system

I understand why it's done of course, but it just makes me furious to see yet another selected group being favoured in this way when there are many other better uses for the money

Its a real struggle and I'm a graduate. I went back to college after having my two older children got into Uni and really believed been a graduate would me a job that would provide for my family. I graduated with a 2:1, looked for work two years after leaving Uni and got no where because I cant drive. So we moved half across the country to where I could get work but could only get Zero hour agency work. Then got an opportunity for a fixed term contract but found I was pregnant just before starting it. I sometimes feel that however hard I try the odds are stacked against me.

It's not enough to be just a graduate, you need to be able to go where the work is, be flexible and have the commitment. Going to uni in later life, not being able to drive or having more children are all choices not the odds being stacked against you.

Yellow Not everyone can be one of lifes drivers A friend of mine managed to learn to drive and pass her test but didnt take it any further because she was too nervous driving

I tried to learn to drive when i was 17 but gave up because i got too nervous behind the wheel

Do you want more nervous drivers on the road while your child is walking to school?

Yellow you do realise that not everyone has the money or support to do those things.

What you are saying is that to put bluntly I should have stayed at home, not bettered myself with education and effectively killed my baby son. For information I worked in retail for years before having my first child but retail pays poorly hence I could not afford the luxury of learning to drive. I went back onto education after growing up as a Jehovah's witness who actively discourage further & Higher education, I escaped and had to rebuild my life from scratch, only to end up in an abusive relationship for 6yrs, escape that with my life and little else and rebuilt my life again. So as you can see my life has been less than ordinary and I have never given up hope that things will get better, but my hope is beginning to fade of late.

Wow. What if you can't drive due to disability? Guess you shouldn't have kids then. A friend drove for years, then she developed epilepsy due to a benign brain tumour and had to turn in her license. She lost her job, too, due to it.

2 of my children likely won't be able to drive, due to their disabilities. They will, however, hopefully be able to work. We moved to London while they're still young so they can learn their way around and learn the public transport system, but we were lucky to be able to do this.

People who are poor or on benefits cannot generally just up and "move to where the jobs are." They cannot afford to move!

I can’t drive. Can’t afford to.

I am self employed. But, when a previous business went tits up because of the recession I applied for over a hundred jobs locally. Anything and everything. I managed to get 3 interviews in total.

Didn’t get any of the jobs. Feedback was, I didn’t drive. Although they loved me

I also went back to college in the evenings to gain useful qualifications, but when I passed my exams and went looking for jobs...I didn’t get any because..I had no experience

I am constantly reminded how the other half live, when on various threads you see comments like ‘get a better job’ and ‘learn to drive’ without any real concept of how difficult that really is.

Oh, to have been born with a silver spoon up my arse.

Exactly the cost of learning to drive is astronomical. Then when you pass theres insurance, maintenance costs and petrol to pay for. Ordinary people are being slowly priced out of mobility which has a detrimental effect on job prospects. We ended up moving from Shropshire back to Suffolk because there were no Jobs in the local area and even then we had to get help from family. But while there are more jobs and opportunities me and my husband none of the work is highly paid or full time so we are stuck on zero hours. Many people are trapped in poverty because they cant afford the moving costs, and high rents, its a catch 22 situation .

Ordinary people are being slowly priced out of mobility which has a detrimental effect on job prospects

Tories just think, "Oh, just get a car."

It is again stratification.

I agree with him. I work ridiculous hours and hardly get to see my two children. I earn a good salary but, living in London and paying the tax that I do, I feel that I can’t afford a third even though I’d love one. It makes me really angry that I see my children so little because I have to work so hard to support other families like this.

'I agree with him. I work ridiculous hours and hardly get to see my two children. I earn a good salary but, living in London and paying the tax that I do, I feel that I can’t afford a third even though I’d love one. It makes me really angry that I see my children so little because I have to work so hard to support other families like this.'

And not about those with all the power who created policies that have inflated property prices so more and more ordinary people have to move out and work harder to keep the wolf from the door whilst the few enrich themselves? Seriously?

But what if you had an accident, it happened to us and we were careful. Contraception can fail, yes its rare but it does happen and the decision you make about that baby will live with you for the rest of your life either way.

So we force an unemployed person to have a vasectomy.... and a few months later they get a job. What then? Does the NHS pay to reverse the vasectomy?

All the people who are sating you should only have kids if you can pay for them - i presume you don't claim child benefit, free nursery hours or free NHS treatment for you children? And you'll be educating them privately?

Thing is though all us working pay our tax which pays for the free stuff we get. Also free child care is through employers for some people.
A few hundred posts up someone suggested cutting free meals for the first three years for those who can afgorx to pay for them. So yet again those who earn there money have to pay out while those who can't afford to look after there children get free meals. It drives me mad that people have children they can't afford to look after. It's so cruel on the children and selfish.

Also this country is becoming her entitled. Do you think it we could chose where our tax went we would actually pay it towards support people who can't support themselves and there children. We have decided not to have more kids as it would tighten money up and I still wouldn't get help from the government so surely that's taking my freedom of choice away.

Some mentioned they couldn't get a job because of lack of qualifications. Well people on benefits get financial help to pay for courses and get free childcare to attend college. While us working people have to pay for both. If that isn't a bloody help to educate what is?

'So we force an unemployed person to have a vasectomy.... and a few months later they get a job. What then? Does the NHS pay to reverse the vasectomy?'

You're supposed to have an abortion according to some on here. And again, many trusts no longer fund vasectomy or female sterilisation.

'Well people on benefits get financial help to pay for courses and get free childcare to attend college. '

They get offered loans like anyone else.

It makes me really angry that I see my children so little because I have to work so hard to support other families like this.'

"families like this" ? How do you know how these families are?

I don't work. Two of my children are disabled, so I am a carer for them. I'd love to be able to do the job I used to do, as I did it well, and it paid very well indeed. Unfortunately, that option isn't available to me. When I had dc2 and dc3, I and my (then) DH had good jobs. We weren't planning on two children with disabilities. I also wasn't planning on my marriage breaking up. But life goes on, and this is where we're at right now. Ideally, I'd have safe reliable childcare, the dcs would cope with school, and I'd be able to support us with a well paying job. Not how it worked out.

When I had dc1, I was a young divorced mum, working up to 3 jobs at any given time - I always worked - so I've been on both sides of the situation. I didn't resent those on benefits. Being on benefits is not that fun.