If you're an unemployed waster then you should have a vasectomy!!!

[sirlee66]

Ben Bradley, an MP, wrote in a blogpost, 6 years ago, that the country would be soon “drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters” if workless families had four or five children while others limited themselves to one or two.
This is what he said:

''It’s horrendous that there are families out there that can make vastly more than the average wage, (or in some cases more than a bloody good wage) just because they have 10 kids. Sorry but how many children you have is a choice; if you can’t afford them, stop having them! Vasectomies are free.

There are hundreds of families in the UK who earn over £60,000 in benefits without lifting a finger because they have so many kids (and for the rest of us that’s a wage of over £90,000 before tax!).

People have to take responsibility for their own lives, and if they are struggling but working hard to help themselves then they should get help. But if they choose to have 10 kids they should take responsibility for that choice and look after them, not expect everyone else to foot the bill!

Families who have never worked a day in their lives having 4 or 5 kids and the rest of us having 1 or 2 means it’s not long before we’re drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters that we pay to keep!''

So What to do you think? Do you agree with Ben Bradley or do you think he is being unreasonable?

Also the idea of food and clothing vouchers is madness.

True, what is to stop them from either selling the vouchers or the products bought with them for cash, instead of using them for their intended purpose?

Some people cannot help to be on benefits. Not my fault i had to become a full time carer to my disabled dd. I would love a job and freedom to work and not do tge same day in and day out. Carers like myself who are not in a employed role save the economy billions. We get hardly any help for our own needs and just get treated like dirt.

A huge chunk of your taxes are going to go towards clearing up after the collapse of Carillion, which represents everything that has gone wrong with the uK economy. Not just greedy lying bastards fiddling their account books, but their whole purpose was to keep wages down. This has always been the point of privatisation and outsourcing: keep wages low and pit the poor against one another, so that a few directors get to make huge sums of money, which they then store in offshore accounts (so it doesn't even go back into the economy).

@ReanimatedSGB 👏

One reason many people who would like a job can't get one is because of the outsourcing model, which is straightforwardly a matter of expecting fewer people to do more work for less money. Those who have the self respect to refuse to take on shitty jobs or those with shit pay, and work out a way of gaming the system enough so that they don't starve, are heroes.

I don't have the latest statistics, but in 2011:

8% of benefit claimants had 3 or more children
130 families in the country with 10 children claimed at least one out-of-work benefit

Nobody can come up with a way to stop the minority of scroungers, without also hitting the majority of claimants who are honest
e.g. Ian Duncan Smith deliberately designed UC to have delays of weeks before people can receive benefits, but this penalised everyone.

The Danish system supermum posted sounds very interesting

A particular roadblock in the UK is the cost of childcare:

it is heavily subsidised in other W European countries and the UK needs to do likewise,
to have more income-taxpayers and to enable more children to be brought up in families where parents work almost all years.

This would avoid women being forced out of the job market for several years at a stretch, wrecking their careers and then having difficulty finding any job at all.
It also gives DC role models of working parents.

Those who have the self respect to refuse to take on shitty jobs or those with shit pay, and work out a way of gaming the system enough so that they don't starve, are heroes

I'm not at all keen on seeing cheaters described as heroes, but anyway aren't those descriptions of jobs and pay rather subjective?

Without doubt there are too many exploitative and downright immoral employers, but what about those who could access reasonably paid work but choose not to, calculating that with maximum benefits and some off the record work they can still get along perfectly well?

Are they heroes too?

'True, what is to stop them from either selling the vouchers or the products bought with them for cash, instead of using them for their intended purpose?'

And they do.

Lots of people in this country have children when they can’t afford to pay for them. We are not talking about changes in circumstances here, we are talking about a concious decision to create another human being and expect someone else to pay for it. That is completely wrong but, what is even worse, is that people are actually defending these individuals.

what is to stop them from either selling the vouchers or the products bought with them for cash, instead of using them for their intended purpose?

Nothing whatsoever ... but that's hardly any different to giving folk cash, which could also be wasted / not used as intended

What would you suggest if someone's been so thoroughly irresponsible with what they've been given though - just give them more and then still more?

A bit of moan. I’ve had fibroids for over 10 years. I spent most of my pregnancy in and out of hospital with really nasty pain. Anyways role five years after I had my son, the problems really kicked in. I’ve been bleeding constantly since with a few days respite here and there. I’ve done everything including ablation so my gp recommended partial hysterectomy. It would cure everything.. so I cried ‘hallelujah ‘ I can have a life and no more periods and pain, stress and depression. Saw a doctor and after six months my op was booked and I put my plans in place and booked time of work. Op is next Friday and I had a call today from hospital telling me that it’s been cancelled due to nhs ‘dire straits’. I could not believe it. So no op as my case is not serious... I could just explode. Not sure what to do now....😢😢😢😢

As Aneurin Bevin said Want Ignorance Idleness Squalor and Disease are the 5 giant evils. Benefits are good if you can't work because you are not able or there is no work available. not working from choice is not ok. Benefits should be a safety net not a lifestyle choice.

I agree with him. I'm infuriated by people who have large families on benefits. There should be NO state help past 2 children and yes get a vasectomy if you're unable to support your children by working yourself!

And we all know he's not talking about those people who have fallen on hard times, become disabled, been through divorce etc and find themselves unable to work.

He's talking about the feckless ones who grew up on benefits and have a sense of entitlement and lack of work ethic bred into them. The irresponsible ones who'll go on taking and breeding because they can.

I'm also infuriated by wealthy people with large families because the world has a serious population problem but that's another story.

we are talking about a concious decision to create another human being and expect someone else to pay for it. That is completely wrong but, what is even worse, is that people are actually defending these individuals

That's the issue, whilst many think it's ok to have children people don't intend to support and benefits allow that it's not going to stop. What would stop it is to simply say no more benefits when children are born so that it's very clear of you want a child you pay for it. If we scrapped all child related benefits we could offer better subsidised childcare and then people could only not work or do part time if they could finance it themselves. More children would grow up with working role models and less would be born into households where financing a child is not seen of importance whatsoever.

Be happy mummy, I assume it was a while ago you were brought up on benefits? My husband was exactly the same. Only time he ever ate was at school, never had clean clothes, never allowed to go on school trips because his mum didn't have money to pay for it. I'm not saying this is how it should be obviously, this is horrendous and I wouldn't wish it on anyone but I do think it seems to have gone in the total opposited direction. I know many people on benefits (through my work and in my family ), most of them are equally as well off, or in quite a few cases, better off than us! My dad was on benefits for 12 months (after a very serious accident where he was unable to walk for 6 months). He went back to work as soon as he could (old school) and was £10 a week better off for working 40 hours...a lot of people wouldn't have even bothered and I can understand why tbh.
Gilead - 'I'm disabled, I would like to be able to spend my cash on fresh fruit and veg from the local market. Asda is 25 miles away on an impossible bus ride and twice the price. Apart from which, I don't see the problem with making choices about how I spend my money.'
No body is saying you should be told where to shop! You should be able to use vouchers wherever you want as long as it's used to buy food/clothes/gas/electric. Anyone found 'selling their vouchers' should be penalised. Also the statement about 'I should be able to spend my money how I want' that's true but it's not YOUR money is it? It's money given to you by the tax payer, so I don't see why it would be so wrong to put certain stipulations on it. I'd like a new car but I can't afford it because I have to pay my mortgage, I'd like to take my kids on holiday but I can't because I have bills to pay, I'd like to live in a bigger house in a nicer area but I can't because ,even though my husband works 70 hours a week, we don't have enough money to do that. That's life unfortunately.

He's talking about the feckless ones who grew up on benefits and have a sense of entitlement and lack of work ethic bred into them. The irresponsible ones who'll go on taking and breeding because they can.
Are you Marie Stopes?

genius. No, as a disabled person I should not be further 'othered' by having to use vouchers, thereby marked out. I should have choices just as every other member of society does. One of the things that helps me is making things. I buy wool. Vouchers would not allow for that, they wouldn't allow for books, second hand or otherwise. They wouldn't allow for choosing clothes in charity shops. They wouldn't allow for a bottle of wine on my birthday, a meal out on my birthday. They would make people with disabilities greater prisoners than they already are.

Those who have the self respect to refuse to take on shitty jobs or those with shit pay, and work out a way of gaming the system enough so that they don't starve, are heroes

No they're not. They're pragmatic and I don't blame them for doing it, it's the system at fault. But they are not 'heroes'. They're abusing and discrediting a system set up to help the most vulnerable making it more difficult and stigmatised for them to receive help. It's also hugely unfair on those who have decent morals and go out and work in shitty jobs and put off having children because they have enough decency not to be a burden on their fellow citizens when they can support themselves.

I know many people on benefits (through my work and in my family ), most of them are equally as well off, or in quite a few cases, better off than us!

That would certainly have been the case in 2010 but it's very unusual now. There's been a freeze on benefits for some time (so a drop in real terms) and a lot of loopholes people used to get extra or higher rates have been closed.

What would stop it is to simply say no more benefits when children are born so that it's very clear of you want a child you pay for it

I can't believe I'm reading this in this day and age.
What do you propose happens to the children who are born?
Let them starve, put them into care, which will cost more.

Where will the jobs come from which will pay enough to keep a family, without tax credits and benefits.
Cheaper childcare won't make food cheaper, energy, rents, clothes etc

I should be able to spend my money how I want' that's true but it's not YOUR money is it?

Are you fucking kidding me? This sentence sums up exactly my issue with the statement that started the thread and the attitudes that have run all the way through it.

Who are you to say that to someone who is claiming benefits because of a disability? It’s IS her money, and she should (and thankfully still does) have the right to spend it as she sees fit.

That’s the issue isn’t it? That although people rabbit on about not lumping everyone (disabled claimants, carers, lone parents unable to work) in with the feckless ones, the veneer doesn’t take long to slip.

Tell me, do you challenge the elderly woman who is spending her pension in Tesco? Or would you challenge an MP claiming £100 for a meal?

No, but you’ll happily get your kicks from sneering at a woman on here who has done nothing wrong because you think you’re entitled to do so. Shame on you.

@Gilead I’m sorry for talking over the top of you with that last comment. It just pissed me off that someone could say that to you. And you’re right, vouchers and justifying every penny would “other” you and many other people who don’t deserve to be treated that way.

I suspect that the high horse lot on here wouldn’t care though.

genius I was born in '92

his blog post was from 6 YEARS AGO. Long before he became an MP, and when he was still a snotty nosed student

Someone pointed out, when yet another MP was being slated, that it will be difficult to find 'respectable' MPs in the future as so many will have posted some rubbish or something explicit or unsavoury online at some point in their teens.

Many very poor have drink or drug problems, is funding their life with benefits always the best option. Not sure what the answer is as you cannot leave DCs without.

Many very poor have drink or drug problems

Many rich people have drink and drug problems. What is your point?