Exh & Holiday

[noidea2018]

Posting for traffic.

Exh and I separated (physically not legally) up over his unreasonable behaviour June 2016. Our DS is now 13 months. He has contact (reluctantly from him although he won't admit it) with DS every Saturday morning for 2 hours. I offered more he wasn't interested.

A few months ago, he told me him and his family wanted to take DS away for a week for a family wedding. I asked details and he told me, we discussed it. He said there wasn't any pressure I could think about it and we'd talk about it at a later date. I since found out nearly ALL the details he told me about this holiday was a lie and that in fact him and ex mil had actually booked it (including DS) weeks before talking to me about it.

Lots of things have happened since then, but the holiday has never been mentioned again. They are going in April.

I am really not happy with them taking him, as exh has never had DS alone for more than an hour before, their flight is 5 hours and he will probably be distracted with the wedding to actually watch ds (swimming pool, supervision etc) he is on birth certificate etc and we are still legally married but does anyone know if I would have a stand to prevent DS from going? TIA

I wouldn't let him take the baby. I don't know where you stand legally, but your ex spends led time with his son than my 12 month old spends with her keyworker at nursery and she only attends part time. He is a virtual stranger.

Less^

You would probably have to go to court. To be honest unless there are other reasons I would let him get on with it as it's not exactly going to be a relaxing holiday...

Nope
Your child hardly knows him 2 Let me buy you something to replace what is gone . Send me a link to something cos I won't have clue if y tell me xxxx hrs a week ffs
He isn't exactly that interested normally , why does he want to take him ?
Who will really be looking after him ( your ds , would it be your ex mil ?
Nope I wouldn't let him tbh

Yeah, don’t do it. 13 months is so young and a week with virtual strangers and two 5 hour flights - your poor baby! And poor you worrying very second. Think about posting in Divorce/Relationships under Body and Soul. Pretty sure you’ll get some good advice there on where you stand legally but if you can afford it, try and get some proper legal advice too. it’s stressful but stay strong

Post fail
Managing to cut and paste a previous message to my friend
So ( red faced) trying again
no don't let ex take your son , it's too long , and your baby is too little to be away from you for so long

So he's never had your ds overnight and, in fact, has never had sole care for more than 2 hours?

That's your starting point then. For the good of your DS, he needs to increase contact massively and immediately. You can't send a baby away for a week to a foreign country with what is a virtual stranger.

If he can't see that, then he isn't thinking about your DS, and that's your answer.

A good stop gaping case he gets stupid would be to get your DS his passport. No passport, no holiday and he can't apply once you have one.

Thank you all for your replies! Was worried I'd be told I was BU for not letting him go. I don't think he wants to take DS at all. I think it's his family that's behind it. It's his mums (ex mil) wedding - supposedly although there's been no evidence proving this. She doesn't really bother with DS either. It just bothers me that if they took it to court which I doubt they will but if they do they would somehow find a way.

I would 100% not trust exh to take DS he doesn't have a clue, and I couldn't guarantee DS's safety!

DS already has a passport, which is somewhere safe - for this reason!!!

No way!

Get ds a passport. See a solicitor ASAP.

But I would not let someone little more than a stranger take him 5 hours flight away for a week, and where that person has LIED about the arrangements.

Not a chance! Yadnbu!

@Graphista thank you. He is a compulsive liar, it's the main reason we split, amongst other smaller issues. He proposed he would take DS the day before the wedding and bring him back the day after. The truth was they'd booked DS for the whole 7 days before Even asking me. Not a chance in my books not even if he was good with him!

It is a criminal offence for a person connected to a child (such as parents, guardians, or anyone with PR for a child) to take or send the child out of the U.K without either consent from everyone who has PR for the child or permission from the court. Anyone found guilty of child abduction can be sent to prison or fined or both.

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/children-law-relocation-holidays-abduction/

Contact the passport office in case he lies and applies for a replacement for a “lost” passport.

@Notevilstepmother I think the law tho is that as long as it's up to 4 weeks/28 days (forget which one) you don't need consent? I've taken DS on holiday, twice and given him all details of flights etc he's been fine. Although last conversation we had (when I found out the truth about his holiday) he said 'well let's not forget that you also need my permission to take DS out of the country when YOU go on holiday'

I did actually get stopped at passport control on my way back into the UK on last holiday, but it's because my passport is still my maiden name as we split up before I changed it, and they wanted proof I was his Mum, luckily I took my marriage certificate and it was all fine.

I think it's highly unlikely that he'd take you to court, but if he did, the court would be very unlikely to allow him.

Is it worth saying 'no' now, or are you better waiting for him to raise it? For my sanity, I think I'd have to have it sorted out now!

@MsVestibule I'm worried that if I say no now, it'll give them time to take me to court. And I'm paranoid that they're gonna totally take hi side, and make him have more contact incl overnights/weekends whatever so he's prepared and completely accommodate him. It terrifies me

Have you seen the travel details in rl? Report your concerns to the passport office incase he tries to apply for a new one. He is a stranger to your dc!!

Yes, I'd also be concerned about that! TBH, I think I would have to put it to the back of mind, wait until he raised it, and hope it was then too late for him to take it to court.

I honestly don't understand why a father who is so reluctant to spend a decent length of time wants to take him on holiday - babies ruin holidays!

and make him have more contact incl overnights/weekends whatever so he's prepared and completely accommodate him.

But how can a court make him do this? They can force the RP to make the child available, but can't force the NRP to actually take him,

Hi OP, I wouldn't let him. No way. Do contact the passport office and warn them that you have the passport and fear a fraudulent application. You are wrong about permission to take a child out of the country. You can only do it without written permission if you have a Residence Order. If you say no, which you should, he will try to prevent you (and may well be able to) taking your DC out of the country. You would then be able to apply to court for permission to take your DS out of the country. Do you have written proof of his lies?

Unless either of you have a residence order in your favour (which states that you do not require permission from the other parent to travel outside the UK for 28 days) then you BOTH legally require the permission of the other to take the child abroad.

I have this and have been asked for the paperwork several times when travelling abroad with the children.

If you do not give him permission he could apply to court for a Specific Issues Order to be allowed to take your dc away, however given the very limited contact he currently has and the fact that he has lied about the arrangements I think you have strong grounds to argue against this.

In your shoes I would be telling him sooner rather than later that you do not intend to allow your dc to travel for a week. If he steps up to increase contact or apply for a SIO then you may have to yield to him.

Maybe start with, in writing, 'given that the longest time DS has ever been in your care, by your choice, is 2 hours, it would be inappropriate and distressing to DS for you to take him abroad for 1 week at this time'.

I don't have written proof of the lies, it was all done face to face 😕 stupid mistake on my part there. I've always said to him when I go on holiday with DS 'we are going away, these are the dates and you can see him x day instead of Saturday' and he's always responded with 'no problem' - which I have proof of on text.

There is no court order currently in place, we've managed to set everything up between up, child maintenance, what's happening with our Flat that we own jointly and contact. Up til now it's all been ok ish

Write a detailed account of what was said to refer to if you need to. Does he know now that you have the proper information?

Yes I confronted him at the time (f2f) and asked why he lied about the details and he just shrugged and smirked at me. It's what he does when he's caught out lying.

I heard that the family courts are so overwhelmed that it's often not possible to get a SIO date in sufficient time to get permission for a holiday. Might be sensible, if you have already said no, to get your head down and say nothing. His request just isn't appropriate. Let the time tick on and he may leave it too late. If he doesn't want to see his son for more than 2 hours, he should forget about holidays.