... in thinking some women just want other women to have a crappy experience of motherhood because they did?

[tomatosalt]

Two work colleagues in their late forties were discussing their experiences of childbirth with me in the lunchroom. This swiftly moved on to one of them admonishing ‘the next generation of mothers’ for accepting too much help from their own parents (the DGP’s) with their DC. I went from being surprised that someone would judge another woman in this way to being horrified when the other one joined in.

Cue both women recounting all the times they were sick/exhausted/recovering from childbirth and left alone with absolutely no help because family all lives too far away. So much judgement “You chose to have them, you raise them!” type stuff. One of the women who is already a grandparent was practically crowing about how she refuses to do any childcare for her DD and SIL, i.e. pick up sick granddaughter from daycare and look after her until one of them could get there from their jobs on the other side of town. The other woman openly stated that she feels ‘resentful’ when a mother tells her that she’s going away with her partner for the weekend, childfree, ‘because I never had that luxury’.

AIBU in thinking women like this are the exception, not the rule?! I’m not advocating that grandparents should be obliged to take on parental responsibilities but why would you not be willing to help out your own child occasionally just on the basis that no one helped you out so everyone else should just suck it up and suffer?

It sounds like jealousy to me.

My mum never had any help when I was born as she was a single mum and her mother had died some time before I was born. She is the best at helping me with my children! She knows how hard it was with no support.

Don't ever feel guilty for having help and support.

These are the same people who say things like - being beaten as a child never did me any harm. It is a certain personality type. Just ignore.

My mum hears this all the time from friends. My mum is a saint when it comes to help. She is on the other end of the line when I have a panic about 2 week old baby with fever and spitting up milk, comes over when I have to work on a weekend on the odd occasion to help out, always buys books/clothes in charity shops for me never having been asked and sometimes calls me to ask if I want a particular item she has seen (we are both of the opinion that it can be expensive to raise a child but there are ways and mean :)) she gets really upset by friends who tell her that once a child reaches 16/18 that child should be sent out into the world.

I am a FT working mother, married with a DH who works PT and takes on most of the child care. I know that I am very lucky but I would do all I could for my child whether he is a child or an adult. My parents gave me lots of advice before I ventured out into the world but are always there for advice. I might rely on them a little too much (DH sometimes asks if I have called up HQ yet) but I love them dearly and we have a great relationship. My DFIL is just as supportive of the family as my husband's mother would have been had she lived.

My mum always said to me don't expect me to drop everything to give continuous child care and I completely understood where she was coming from. They don't like to be tied down and when I have asked for last minute child care - very sick DH and wanting to get young baby out of house (I later came down ill as well) they were there to catch us.

All 3 grandparents have a wonderful relationship with their GS and I hope it will continue for as long as possible

There's something really tragic about people who are caught in that trap of simply wanting to reproduce - get their chance to be the person dishing it out, rather than being on the receiving end of - inequalities, unfairness, hard treatment, rather than transforming experience, for everyone, for those that come after, for the better.

It's very human. And I guess it's easier, and more reliable and immediate, than trying to change things.

I don't usually care what others think so I would just brush off their comments. I have had no help from family when it comes to raising my children. My parents were not that interested as parents so I am not surprised in their grand parenting style. However, my mother had lots of help from her mother and had a lot more freedom than I have had because she always had someone on hand to help with the children. I like to think I will help my DC with their children should they want me to and if I am in a position to. I don't resent anyone who has family help, I think the are very fortunate.

mad That is another aspect of it, though.

Parenting-as-a-woman is a serious assault on your autonomy and self-hood. It's impossible not to dream of a time when you finally will have your 'self' back, and the freedom to have your time as your own, to spend as and when and how you wish (on yourself, if you want!), not parcelled out to deal with the pressing needs of others.

It's important to recognise that need for self-hood and time. So, I guess on the part of those receiving help, it's important to recognise the cost of that help, and the fact that it is quite a precious gift.

Mind you, I do notice that, on MN at least, there is a strong recognition of that.

Penggwn bullshit. My DFIL comes round every Monday morning to take my son to nursery and has babysat on the extremely rare occasion DH and I have gone out for the evening together.

Statistically, it does tend to be grandmothers, rather than grandfathers, though.

My mum didn't have help bringing us up, my dad was useless so she did it alone practically. However, she is of the thought, you had them, you raise them.
I have 4 nieces and nephews and she (nore my dad) ever helps with them, no trips out with grandparents, no offers of lifts to clubs or anything. No overnight stays etc. They said from day 1 of finding out about the first grandchild due that they would not being doing anything like that, that's just the way they are! They love having visits from them, get involved with play etc, so they do have a relationship with them.
Growing up, i never had any of that from my grandparents either, they were too busy living their busy life which is great, i don't feel i missed out at all as i was always busy with my parents.
But then, we don't do aunty/uncle stuff with the children either, everyones got their own life, family time has never been high on priority list for any of us. That's just how some families work! We all know where each other are if needed, as we have been a couple of times in emergency family situations before.

I think it can be a generational thing too. My mum often told me that her MIL said as soon a she was pregnant that they wouldn't be babysitting all the time except in extreme circumstance as 'they'd raised their own'.

What a nasty pair. I'm 44 ( so not that much younger than them ) with 3 DC age 14, 9 and 1 and I will gladly take whatever help is on offer from their grandparents. My parents are dead now but when my Mum was still alive she was massively helpful and used to make the point that she could not have managed without the help of her parents when my brother and I were young. She, like a lot of mums in the 70's was a SAHM and was always saying she didn't know how my generation coped with looking after kids and working!

My MIL helps on a regular basis but I would never take this for granted and try not to ask too much of her .FIL (they are divorced) has never shown much interest and has never babysat or even had them over for tea despite only living about half a mile away. I see this as his loss but I must admit that it will probably be reflected in my attitude to caring for them in their old age.

I have friends who get a lot more help than I do and I have friends who get little or no help and I don't think it's generational , it's just down to circumstances and whilst i might be slightly envious of someone going off on a childfree weekend, I would never judge them for it.

I’ve only heard of this in Western Europe... in my other cultures grandparents play a crucial role in the lives of their grandchildren. But then also old people do not get dumped in retirement homes like they do here.

I have spent a lot of time in Asia, Thailand especially and the grand parents relish the opportunity to help, and do all the childcare when parents are back at work. But there it’s more common for big family groups to live together, it is similar in Nigeria.

My own western mother was heartbroken we didn’t have the room so she could stay and help when mine was a newborn, as was my African mil.

Hmm, you think a work colleague should leave work to care for a sick grandchild so the child's parents don't have to leave work to do so. Sounds fair.

You are right - I missed the most on the first read. I think that a lot more grandfathers help out their family - or maybe that's just the situation where I live and in my family. I see evidence every day of one adult male helping out their family and this extends to uncles as well

To emphasise a point though:

All this talk of "My mother/mother-in-law does/does not help - AIBU?" disguises the real issue, which is that caring falls mostly to women, it's a real burden, especially if you are working-for-a-wage at the same time, and it is unsustainable.

There is going to be a massive crisis - and I think there's a silent, individualised crisis unfolding right now - as the issue of elder care kicks in. A lot of us (on MN) are going to be caring for our children as well as our parents, or helping with childcare for our children, as well as dealing with our own parents, whilst working outside the home too.

It is an enormous demand - placed primarily on women - and we need to start developing a real politics around that. Threads about "AIBU to feel overwhelmed looking after my parents and my children" ("You should love your parents and your children enough to do this") aren't enough.

My parents looked after my DC when they were little two days a week. Both of my parents. Dad did most of the picking up and dropping off at nursery/school.

My Mum was saying recently how much they enjoyed doing it, especially now the boys are teenagers and off doing their own thing.

They're just jealous and nasty people. It's like the folk who admonish anyone who receives any financial help from parents after the age of 18.
My job as a mother is to bring up my son to be well rounded and self sufficient, but I will also give him all of the advantages I myself have. That includes; money, helping with grandchildren, advice and most of all love and understanding.

Yes I've come across these types. Also, they don't like allowances being made for pregnant women "because I had to lift boxes until I was 37 weeks" or whatever their moan of the day is.

They're the exception though. Most women aren't like this.

I'm not even 40 but I do get shocked at the expectation that GP's should be quasi parents and anything less of them is selfish and uncaring. I had mine in early 20's and managed well I think with very little help. My DP's were both working FT so I would never have asked for any help and they didn't offer. We visited them every week and they were and still are very loving grandparents. I had 3 under 4 and I remember my HV saying how awful it was that my DM didn't take them at the weekend to give me a break. I do feel that many now want to have children but still live a fairly uninterrupted life.

I got no help from my mum which is strange because my gran was there anytime she was needed and shared my upbringing because mum was a single parent.
Mum would crow and boast about her grandchildren yet refuse any babysitting or even having them for tea or whatever It made me quite sad and resentful that she had no time for me or them . I don't think Gp should be on tap but to go on like the women you are talking about is awful, I couldn't let my children struggle if they had their own and would gladly help when I could.

My late Mil was great and enjoyed her grandchildren and the dds loved staying over.

Yes, it's great. Dh and I get to work til wer'e 70, whilst taking on more and more care for elderly parents, then when we finally retire, we can take on childcare responsibilities til we drop. Can't wait.

@wisterialanes I think that's the other end of the spectrum though. I don't know any grandparents that aren't delighted to have their grandchildren as they're not taken advantage of.
Unfortunately due to an injury and surgery that I'm still recovering from my Mum & mil are round at mine every day at different times to help with ds. Dh is self employed and there's no way he could take up to 12 weeks off work. I'm so so grateful to my sons grannies, we're buying them treats and taking mil on holiday with us at end of March. I don't know what we would have done without them.