English vs Welsh education

[BillandBen12345]

I have put this in education but am posting here for traffic. Hubby says it is U to not move for fear that the schooling is not so great and that I have no evidence of this...

We are considering moving to Swansea. My children are currently in Ofsted outstanding schools in England, yr 5 and yr 7. The school in wales that we would send them to is Estyn Excellent. However, I am told the education in Wales is not as good as England and that the children will leave school with a sub standard education. Is there any truth to this? Does anyone have any evidence either way that can help me make this tough decision? Tia.

Olchfa was one of those that I worked at. I really enjoyed my time there. Have heard very good things about Bishopston too. At one point because of friendships between certain members of staff from each school they collaborated on ‘best practice’ forums. Staff learnt from each other to deliver excellent teaching to pupils. Some schools can position themselves almost like a fiefdom. It was nice to see schools working together instead of viewing each other as competition.

I really hope that's not true! My dc are in the Welsh eduction system!!! Where have you heard that? Have you read some reports? Hope it's not just hear say.

Also just to add, I left the Welsh eduction system with 10 GCSES, 3 A levels and a degree.

If those are the schools you are looking at your dc should be fine!

I know both schools well. Bishopston is oversubscribed so you will definitely need to live in catchment. We chose a different school over Olchfa for pastoral reasons but it is very well resourced and already achieving children do well there.

Bullying is an issue at both schools and I have heard they don't deal with it very well. Maybe that's unfair, but it is what I have heard.

We also moved from England to Swansea. There are quite a few people who have done that, particularly in the areas around d the hospital and the universities. My children have been very happy.

I actually thought this was a joke.
I find your post hugely offensive.

Welsh is my first language.
In the Welsh education system I achieved 10 GCSE grades(8A's,2 B's)
4 A Levels(A,2 B's and a C)
A first class degree.

I no longer live in Wales(I wish I still did) but I speak Welsh to my DS and he has picked it up so well and that makes me so proud.

You do need to understand, OP, that your children will move into an education system with a different curriculum, different qualifications and a different inspection system.

Education is devolved in Wales and since English GCSEs were reformed from 2015 (for first examination in 2017) the Welsh GCSEs have the first time looked very different to the English ones. Wales has not adopted the 9-1 grading system and has retained A*-G. English GCSEs are now 100% terminal examination with no coursework or controlled assessment in the vast majority of subjects; Wales has retained the coursework elements and modular examinations. Because the English reforms were brought in with claims of increased rigour, it's possible that some people (including employers) may perceive that the Welsh qualifications are less rigorous. It is too early to tell if there is any evidence for this.

I know that this is an emotive issue and OP's post is clumsily worded. Nevertheless this perception does exist and I think that this is what OP's friends and family have alluded to.

I moved from England to Swansea too, although I had my children here in Wales. They are still primary school age and attend an English speaking primary, near the University, in Swansea. The school is rightly highly regarded and children receive a high level of pastoral care and a good education.

I know of both Olchfa and Bishopston. Both are highly regarded and I know children that have achieved well in both schools. My children are likely to go to Bishop Gore, also an Estyn Excellent. BG has a more diverse catchment and seems to be less beloved in Swansea than its more middle class counterparts, Olchfa and Bishopston. I have heard rumours about bullying in Olchfa but I am sure that this is an issue to some extent in most schools, sadly. BG is supposedly better with Pastoral care.

Education aside, Swansea is an amazing place to live with amazing parks, beaches, the Uni and an increasingly diverse population. I am one of hundreds of English 'incomers' who have discovered the amazing lifestyle and schools one can access for relatively speaking modest house prices.

But shhh, don't tell everyone!

Thank you everyone for your helpful comments. It has really helped to settle my mind.

@onefliesoverthecuckoosnest mine are off to BG too. I suspect they are at the same primary...

Don’t be so bloody ridiculous!

You can’t write off a whole country because a few prejudiced dicks who don’t want you to leave slag it off.

If you’re going to bring that attitude then don’t bother coming to wales.

In my view it is much easier to get your child into an outstanding school in Wales than in England as catchments are more affordable. I went to a comp in Wales and 12 of my year went to Oxbridge. I think the GCSE pass rate for both of the schools you mention is over 75%. Almost impossible to find schools like that in Somerset for instance!

The difference between the best and worst schools in Swansea (or any other place of comparable size) will be far greater than the difference between the average school in England and the average school in Wales.

My wife went to a pretty ordinary comprehensive school not a million miles from Swansea, and this doesn't seem to have dented her progress. She got 15 good GCSEs and top notch A-level results while learning three musical instruments and playing sport to a decent standard too. I met her at Oxford where she was studying medicine.

Look at the schools in the area you're thinking of moving to, and factor that into your plans, but don't listen to prejudice!

OP. I think you have had an unnecessarily hard time.

Education is devolved.

It is a fair question as to whether Wales on average is doing education better than England, or vice versa, or the same.
Especially as the Welsh GCSE board and the English GCSE boards have now diverged.
And the existence of Welsh medium schools.

However I think you need to define 'better':

• higher levels of maths achieved on average (PISA? survey??)
• wider range subjects offered
• wider number of GCSEs taken on average (eg 11 v 9)
• more in depth knowledge at GCSE
• higher % gaining 5 GCSEs incl English & Maths
• more sport & music

I really think to get an answer to your questions you need to

• define better
• go back to the Education boards
• think whether you want to know this, or just compare specific schools

This thread has made me laugh, it’s strange reading about your hometown as if it was some strange alien location... I went to Bishop Gore many years ago, it was a bit rough round the edges in those days, and my much younger siblings have recently left Bishopston. All with good results. I actually went on to read PPE at Oxford if you can believe that and my sister has university offers from LSE and UCL, so anecdotally I can report it’s not worth writing off education in Wales just yet

I went to Olchfa and studied at a Russell group uni. Can’t honestly work out if you’re being serious, but if you are and you do move here, lose the attitude before you come if you want to make friends. I don’t think you’ll go down very well if you move here and tell us how backwards we are compared to England

Ooh @temporaryanonymity, that's quite exciting! I've never 'met' anyone I know on MN before. Wondering if I have chatted in the playground with you!

Does your DC's school have the v. lovely, v. booming Miss H?

Wales does score lower than the rest of the UK in the Pisa tests. I'm Welsh, currently raising children in Wales and love living here but tbh the overall state of education in Wales does concern me. That's not to say that there aren't good schools and of course high achieving pupils but were clearly going wrong somewhere!

OP I think people are being very unfair to you, it wasn't you who made the insulting offensive comment, but others talking about the English system.

IMHO the welsh system is like the English system in that there are excellent schools and rubbish schools.

My only issue with the welsh education system is that it's compulsory to take welsh at GCSE and this really pisses me off. But then I'm also pissed off that my children are forced to take RE at GCSE (catholic high school).
This drastically reduces their available options at GCSE.
The welsh bacc isn't worth the paper it's written on but is great if you need an extra a-level

On a positive note dd passed all her GCSEs, 3 a-levels and is now studying at oxford with her welsh education

*Just to clarify there has been no mention of Wales being in any way 'backwards'. The question is about the difference in the education system between England and Wales - which i believe there is a diffence. I have admitted having no knowledge or experience of welsh schooling - hence the reason for the OP. **

Sorry meant others talking about the welsh v English systems

I'll ignore how offensive your OP is and try to be helpful...

I went to Bishopston (absolutely loved it), left with all A stars, went on to get all As in my A Levels, then a first class degree from a Russell Group uni and a distinction at Masters level from KCL. So I think I've managed to do alright for myself despite coming from Wales

Yes, education is devolved so there are differences, particularly now that the Tories have fucked around with English education so much. I'm living back in Wales now and am so glad my daughter will be going to Welsh schools - the English school system is a mess at the moment. In case you're unaware, there aren't any academies in Wales, so schools still have to teach the national curriculum and employ qualified teachers.

Just to add in response to PP, Welsh GCSE isn't compulsory, it's just compulsory to still study welsh. My sister left school recently and just had one Welsh lesson a week and wasn't entered for the gcse.

Is the ignorant comment made by the OPs husband just an excuse to say he does not want to move, or move to Swansea?

A genuine, non-goady question for the Welsh MNers on the thread - what's your perception of the concerns around lack of parity between the reformed English and Welsh GCSEs? I'm in England but I have a lot of friends who work in Welsh schools and universities and they seem really concerned about it. The first cohort who took these exams are going to start applying for university this autumn and it was my understanding that there is concern that very bright Welsh students with As and A*s at GCSE might be at a disadvantage when compared to English students who have achieved 8s and 9s within very different assessment frameworks.

As I say, a genuine question and I have no agenda in asking it - but I had got the impression from friends that this issue is really preoccupying many in Welsh education and I am intrigued to know if parents have similar concerns.