To wonder if India lives on a different planet to the one I'm on?

[UnFuckingAcceptable]

Watching cbbbots and the 'interview' with the evicted housemate from Celebrity Big brother. India is first to leave and when asked if there are any regrets over the show the response was "at least I've stated conversation about it (trans issues) as it isn't talked about enough".

Isn't it?
Do I live in a different world?
I hear about it all the time. It's almost becoming a daily conversation.
Does anybody else share India's experience of it not being talked about enough (how that can be the case in the experience of a transwoman I find impossible to believe) or are people finding, as I am, that it is talked about so much that they find their head spinning?

No one talks about this, in RL, other than on MN.
That's because India is a dick, and does a dis-service to the real problem of trans issues.

I do feel a bit sorry for India, I feel that a massive life changing surgery was preformed on a seriously mentally ill person. Those issues should’ve been addressed before a scalpel when anywhere near them.

I agree with what what pp are saying about Shane J, what a breath of fresh air he is. Sensible, calm and totally open to listening to others opinions and debating them with a cool level head, something India was seriously lacking.

Perhaps it's the circles I mix in then?

Work in education and the school is working with the pride trust in order to gain a rainbow flag award so discussions have been going on here since early 2017.

On the rare occasions I have made it to the playground for the school run there has been chatter about, not specifically trans issues I suppose but gender. Another parent who works in education had training about using gender neutral language and so it has been a hot topic for the playground parents.

At the gym I train at last year I got so bored of hearing about Laurel Hubbard. Quite a few members of the gym are bodybuilders or MMA fighters and there were some pretty heated conversations going on while that whole thing played out.

Of course I read it on here but it has come up so often in RL that I was genuinely perplexed at the insistence that it isn't talked about enough.

Interesting that in the interviews IW was not challenged about their horrible comments (ageism etc) about the other women. So transphobia's NOT ok but IW can be ageist and offensive and get a pass?
And like a 15 year old adolescent as an excuse for poor behaviour? How very offensive.

OP, I think many people have been unaware until recently of the issues (unless they've had the training via work from the pressure groups). And once they've had the training and are taught that there is #nodebate about TG issues, of course, they won't risk their careers by raising any questions or reservations. So democratic discussion is shut down as it's being defined as 'hate speech' and 'eradicating' TG people.

Which is why everyone has stood by while women are being chucked out of sex segregated spaces, sports, women only shortlists etc.
Fortunately women are starting to protest and push back and to insist that wanting to protect hard won rights for women is not transphobic.

It's pretty much all I hear people talking about irl, obviously not constantly but it sure is a hot topic among pretty much everyone I know. And everyone, apart from one friend who goes to see a show a transvestite puts on in her local town every few weeks so classes herself as liberal refuses to play along with the whole man can be a woman and vice versa lie. And I've been heartened that a lot of the men I know are furious on women's behalf :)

I do think the desire and need to transgender is incredibly brave

Genuine question, in what way is it brave?

He, like many male trans, is utterly self-centred and can't handle people not talking about him.

Trans is everywhere, it's constantly on the telly, news, papers, online. He just doesn't like that it's not about him.

I hear it a lot in real life too - I also work in education and it is relevant to an increasing amount of the young people we deal with.

I didn't like India (absolutely nothing to do with gender)

Just a selfish me me me person with a dull persona. She isn't warm or likeable. But I so pity her. I don't think her gender is what separates her from others.

If I did't frequent MN I wouldn't see any discussions about it at all. My B newsfeed is definitely not full of discussions about it - but then maybe that's because I live in a rural county which is generally 20 years behind the rest of the world in all things even remotely diverse.

10,000 vaginas to look at and choose. Is this what “feeling like a woman” is all about?

Sounds more like a fetish.

(A) someone in CBB is hardly a great example of a contemplative intelligent person
(B) trans issue are not actuallly discussed much in my life . If I look at my family , friends , colleagues we talk about Many issues but the trans issue doesn’t really come up . Only in DM and MN actually !!!!

So India is not worth giving much airspace IMO .

I've seen comments saying that dude, ginuwine? Is a transphobe for saying he wouldn't date a TIM and India was really offended wasn't he?

That's because, India, heterosexuals generally aren't interested in people of the same sex.

I'm actually really glad this happened in front of such a huge audience. This has been said by TRAs about lesbians for a long time now; that they should consider trans women, even pre op, because penises can be female don't you know, as sexual partners and if they don't they're transphobic - google "cotton ceiling". Now it's moved on to heterosexual men people are all full of outrage and raising awareness of what exactly is means to be supportive of the trans agenda.

Yawn....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The best thing to do with attention-seeking behaviour is to ignore it.

If India really was shown the Wall of Vaginas (which is a really fantastic piece of art, in which thousands of women agreed to have their vulvas cast) by a doctor, I suspect it was only to demonstrate the enormous variety of appearances of a vulva, in preparation for seeing her post-op genitalia. It definitely wasn't to choose, and it's sad to have that rather groundbreaking artwork reduced to a catalogue for someone to apparently choose their vulva from.

10,000 vaginas to look at and choose. Is this what “feeling like a woman” is all about

Apparently yes, if you believe the porn industry and the TRAs.

Also, am I just thick or would she really be choosing the mons pubis, labia and vulva she wanted? I thought the actual vagina was the tube inside?

And I am also quite immersed in conversations about transpeople (and let's face it, it's usually transwomen) pretty often, at work and outside. I know people who have transitioned, and they are a real variety of individuals. None are like India, thankfully. But my general experience is that people my age (40-cough) are concerned about the high-profile but minority voices that appear to be seeking to minimise women's experiences, while feeling that the transwomen they meet day to day are NOT doing so. I know no one who has encountered personally anyone like India. The younger people I know are far more gung ho about trans and that does concern me a little as it feels that it's all becoming rather trivialised and fashionable for some of them. Again, that may well not be the lived experience of most younger transpeople. But my teenage son certainly thinks that it is transphobic to discuss any reservations at all and so debate is usually closed down in our house.

It is a fetish Julie

The trans agenda has, by piggybacking on diversity work,managed to make a campaign for men with a sexual fetish look progressive.

There are some people with gender dysphoria and some girls particularly who need help during their teenage years. But the loudest voices. The ones pushing into women’s changing rooms and women’s officer roles - they are Men’s Rights Activists and fetishists.

So many threads about India... who the hell is she?

India is someone that seems to struggle with controlling others, the truth (caught out by BB and Twitter), reality and others boundaries be they physical, thoughts or language. They also call (the natal type) women, especially the older variety unpleasant names.

India also expects hetrosxual men ten years her juniour to accept being touched and kissed against their will. I gather Ashley claimed India slandered a man too, because he refused to have sex with India.

I never hear it talked about in RL, only on here. I’d say most of my peers (early twenties) are pretty accepting and unaware that it’s causing such issues with gender (I was until I found MN), and occasionally I’ll hear a passing ‘what is the world coming to’ type comment from colleagues/relatives if a trans person is on the TV. That’s about it.

She’s extremely self-obsessed so I guess in her mind it should be a massive issue for everyone because it’s a massive issue for her.

It's interesting this big push for freedom of expression, yet if your a straight male according to a person like India (not using the pronoun) you can refuse sexual advances from a trans person ironic really