Would you judge someone if you found they were bankrupt?

[rabbit12345]

This question. How would you/would you judge someone who had applied for bankruptcy?

Firstly as a friend or an interviewer.

I know aibu for not giving further details but I wanted a response based on the bankrupt fact not the reasons why etc..I will explain why though after considering the responses.

A CCJ is actually viewed worse than bankruptcy by lenders,it shows you did nothing to sort out the issue (not judging your friend at all just debating your point about it not being as bad as bankruptcy) lenders generally ask have you been bankrupt in the last 6 years whereas they ask have you EVER had a ccj.

Yes fair point- although since it falls off after 7 years they wouldn’t know- I meant not as bad as bankruptcy in that your normal financial life continues as normal aside from restriction to new debt, whereas bankruptcy affects most of your finances

I had my credit card limit increased every six months without my permission

And who forced you to buy to your new limit?

Work I would judge yes because it says something about their judgement and self control

but it doesn't, a lot of the time. What would it say about the judgement or self control of someone who lost their job and home through illness and couldn't pay their debts? Nothing, that's what.

I think people imagine that you only go bankrupt if you have a business and you don't run it properly, or because you went mad with credit cards or bad investments. Not so. People go bankrupt for all kinds of reasons, sometimes just bad luck and circumstance.

Do you work in financial services Andrew?

Nobody Andrewofgg. No person or individual anyway. I had no choice as you'll have read, I was severely poorly in a job that didn't pay sick pay, rejected from DLA benefits, no family to help out, and had to find several thousand to bury my mother.

As much as you'd like to believe it, it wasn't spent on holidays and booze and cigs. It was spent on rent and bills and a funeral and a headstone, and food when my monthly income went down to zero.

Can you think of a way to suggest that was all my fault?

@Cherry no Andrew definitely doesn't because if he did he wouldnt be so rude and unkind because we've seen it all working in this type of job and wouldn't judge. Unless he works in one of those debty call centres that don't know how real life works

I know three people that have gone bankrupt. One had a very tough set of circumstances that led to it and has tried so hard to stay afloat. I don't judge her at all.

The other two had businesses go bankrupt. They've both done it several times, starting a new business up and leaving the people they owe money to in a mess. They've had lovely holidays, expensive upgrades to their kitchens, new cars, lived the high life. I judge them. I think they're awful.

I also judge people that use it as a way of wiping debt, such as one of the first replies to this thread. I met someone at work similar. She wanted to move to France, but had a lot of debt. She was paying it off, but it was going to take five years before she had, so she was thinking about going bankrupt so that she could move sooner. Selfish madam!

Our little business has been rocked a few times over the year by people that have wriggled out of bills. We've had to shoulder that loss and struggled.

Agree with a poster up thread - an Iva is NOT always a better option. It's a complex field and advice is dependant on individual circumstances.

I wouldn’t judge as I’ve been there. I started off with an IVA and couldn’t manage the payments so ended up going bankrupt. I made payments to the official receiver for 3 years.

Close friends and family know and no one has said anything to my face. Anyone who judges me isn’t worth bothering about to be honest.

To the poster who said pension pots should be cashed in, how would that help? What exactly do you think I should live off when I retire? Perhaps you think I should work until I die to make up for going BR.

Society has to have a way of acknowledging you can’t get blood from a stone and allowing people to make a fresh start. It simply must

Up to a point, yes - but doesn't this raise the issue of who actually forces a bankruptcy?

If it's someone like HMRC, a bank or a major creditor, the number crunchers will probably have assessed the overall picture and made an informed decision about what's left ... but such a decision made by the debtor can sometimes reflect a wish to avoid paying, rather than being genuinely unable to (and before the stamping starts, that does say sometimes, not always)

I'm more curious as to what solutions Andrewofgg can suggest that I didn't think of then, in case a friend goes through something similar. After all, if there must have been other options if it was wrong or a sign of poor judgment/lack of personal responsibility to use the credit card for food and rent.

MrTrebus I was als expecting he’d know that the ONLY reason your credit card limit if raised is to get you to take out more credit and thus get into more debt with the company. They know exactly what they’re doing and to say “no one forced you to spend it” is ridiculous in the extreme

A CCJ is actually viewed worse than bankruptcy by lenders,it shows you did nothing to sort out the issue

Well that shows how little people understand CCJ then.

You can do all sorts to try and 'sort the problem'. However ceditors have to agree.

You are actually barred from certain professions and certain positions of office if you are bankrupt so ignore interviewing, potentially I would. Without knowing the circumstances it is difficult to say. Some people who are not reckless by nature got caught short for example in the property crash (developers etc) so for those people I wouldn't automatically assume it meant recklessness or an inability to manage money properly. It would be fact specific in each case I think. If it's just someone who has spent beyond their means and then been too lazy to work their way out of it then yes. If it was someone who had somehow managed to secrete assets to keep them outside the reach of the bankruptcy order, thus leaving unsecured creditors whilst still keeping their own money, then absolutely I'd judge them....

On that last point, hello @Kursk , I see you've popped up on this thread. How the hell did you and your DH manage to get the "decent amount of money to leave the country" you referred to on another thread out of the country and still declare yourself bankrupt here? If you had creditors here you should have paid them from that money, surely?!

I also judge people that use it as a way of wiping debt, such as one of the first replies to this thread. I met someone at work similar. She wanted to move to France, but had a lot of debt. She was paying it off, but it was going to take five years before she had, so she was thinking about going bankrupt so that she could move sooner. Selfish madam!

I don’t think you know much about the circumstances on this one (so maybe hold the judgement) if she wanted to move to France with debt here why couldn’t she do it? Her creditors wouldn’t have followed her to France anyway. No need for bankrupcy

Actually another CCJ story- I worked with someone who had taken out a very expensive car on hire purchase. 1 month after the car was delivered something very serious occurred within their finances and they had to return it. They paid a deposit for the car, they paid a months repayment. They returned the car.

The car loan company said he needed to pay £19k which was the contractual agreement if the car was returned before the term. The person argued that this was unreasonable bearing in mind the company had the car back, and would obviously keep the deposit which ran into thousands too.

The car company took it to court which the creditor defended, believing the charge to be unfair. The judge ruled that it wasn’t. The car company made a motion immediately after the decision to award a CCJ and he was later left with no option but to secure that on his house.

There was no step not to deal with it. He was in protracted negations with them for months and defended himself in court. So I’m not sure where the idea that you haven’t dealt with it comes from?

As someone who recently tried to defend a private parking ticket I can also see how you can get a CCJ from that despite being fully engaged. Companies know how to use them

Lemon thank you for sharing your experience, it sounds like a horrific time and to everybody else too.

I have spoken to stepchange and bankruptcy is the route that they advise - mainly due to limited assets and short term earning potential. I have tried negotiating with creditors but they will not accept my current offer and the phone calls alone have been 27 today from 4 companies. Just expanding in what some have said I have also stated to receive text offers from a loan company offering up to 10k. I have no idea how they got my number. I have not looked for credit online and can only assume it is a sister company to one of my creditors.

Some of you have also said some quite derogatory things about the situation but this is why I asked the question as it confirms my fears. It may not stop me from filing bankruptcy (I may be forced into it) but this is something I will need to make peace with. But yes right now I feel like a thief. I have always been a person to face problems head on but presently finding myself hiding away because I just don’t know what to say to these people. They keep pushing and pushing and I just do not have it at the moment. I actually hid behind the door today when someone knocked “just in case”.

OP - just read more of the thread now. Based on your subsequent explanations of your circumstances, I definitely wouldn't judge you. You've just been bloody unlucky imo. Good luck to you whatever option you go for - I hope you get back on your feet. Xxx

Wouldn't judge them at all. Life happens and sometimes it happens in very shit ways.

Because they’re circling rabbit. They’re vultures and despite what people say on here many many people are in the business of profiting from others financial downfall- big banks and institutions as well as the loan sharks. It’s an entire industry and that’s who the public should be angry with.
Stay strong. Bankrupcy is not the worst thing- you will get breathing space. A lot of them will stop contacting you (many won’t) but you can tell them all you are bankrupt and they can fuck off.

This will be over and things will be better

puzzledandpissedoff you do realise the bankrupcy service will investigate everything before granting a bankrupcy? You can’t just go to them because you don’t fancy paying.

I’m not saying it’s not possible to hide assets or play the system (you can play any system- that’s the whole point of a system) but you can’t just rock up because you don’t fancy paying.

I wouldn't judge. There for the grace of god..

you do realise the bankrupcy service will investigate everything before granting a bankrupcy?

Yes, of course ... but as you said yourself, it's hardly impossible to hide assets

Ironic, too, that those best at doing the hiding are sometimes the very ones who are loudest in declaring they "didn't understand what they were getting into"

I have known many people who have gone bankrupt over the years. All have tried to keep their heads above water . Tried to pay the wages of their staff . They predominantly fell into 2 categories.
1st. Tax demand (during the 70s)
2nd. Nowadays people just not paying them their bill. Arguing about the standard of work. So in effect they ended up working for very little

I don't judge anyone