Would you judge someone if you found they were bankrupt?

[rabbit12345]

This question. How would you/would you judge someone who had applied for bankruptcy?

Firstly as a friend or an interviewer.

I know aibu for not giving further details but I wanted a response based on the bankrupt fact not the reasons why etc..I will explain why though after considering the responses.

No. Because I have been there due to a failed business and the shit RBS put me through. Judge away all those who would look down their noses. It's not an easy option and it is certainly no picnic. I went through a nervous breakdown as a result, my marriage ended and it was hell.

Up until that point had excellent credit and never defaulted on anything.

So as others have said it very much depends on circumstances.

Society has to have a way of acknowledging you can’t get blood from a stone and allowing people to make a fresh start.

Indeed - but you must expect to give up everything you have (and possibly pay some of your income into the bankruptcy for a time) as price of the fresh start, and some people don't.

I would be wary. My DSis's EXDH was heavily in debt to the tune of £17.5k. He was about to go bankrupt. He told DSis 2 weeks before they got married. He asked her whether she wanted to call off the wedding, she said, 'I'm not that shallow.' My DM paid his debts and they got married.

He was awful to her, he was violent towards her, which I didn't know until after they separated. He'd spent all DSis's available money and then he decided he'd had enough of the marriage (he did her a favour of course).

I remember the bitter divorce settlement, as the firm I was working for as a secretary handled it for her. My DM tried to get her money back, but of course she didn't. But she was prepared to let it go in the interest of getting him out of our lives.

So yes, I would be cautious. But I know that everyone's circumstances are different and in your case, OP, I definitely wouldn't judge.

It was a broad range of roles surrounding vulnerable service users so there were additional rules. Carers. Social workers. Child protection typists and minute takers etc. (so including those not in direct contact with a service user but one with access to databases etc.)

There will also be other limitations to certain other roles such as in the police as well.

Being an undischarged bankrupt is not a protected characteristic under recruitment law. No matter how undeserved bankruptcy was or otherwise.

If she went down the bankruptcy route, when rabbit starts applying to roles, she may wish to consider speaking to the hiring manager in the first instance and certainly not leave off any information if asked in the application form.

I honestly think that the op should exhaust all avenues before hitting bankruptcy. Even with the loosening up of rules where they can have a basic bank account, they may be on the back foot for years.

Don't rely on us op, you need real advice so look at step change / cab etc.

What would be the point in paying every penny back?

The problem is in this country some people really do want debtors prisons and want people to pay forever for mistakes and bad luck. This filters through to the general population and that’s why you have people killing themselves and their families to pay back debt that should never be prioritised (going without basics to pay back a credit card for example)
Credit is a Business and any business that offers credit just reflect the risk of non payment in their business plans and pricing. They can’t complain about non payment, it’s part of being in business. All they can do is try and bully the debtor more than any other creditor to squeeze what they can.

Then maybe they can pat themselves on the back that a person has gone without heating or got into rent arrears to pay back their credit card

Bankrupt protects us from those people.

As an interviewer, I would have to. I am not allowed to employ someone like that anyway - and yes, we do check.
In a different industry, it would depend on the job. Not being on top of your personal finance doesn't prevent you from being a great hair dresser, or a baker.

I do know a couple of people who declared bankruptcy, and frankly it's uncomfortable. They did leave the country, started again there, and came back when the slate was wiped clean (can't remember how long it was, but was definitively less than 10 years). And started again! Too bad for the small businesses who lost money that was due to them. it sounds too much like an easy solution, sorry. I can think of one who has left the country AGAIN after being bankrupt for the 2nd time.

@Lizzie48 so someone that is going bankrupt could also be into domestic violence?

Some of these comments are fucking awful.

OP please ignore all the bullshit, get some good and decent FREE advice (do not pay one of those dodgy companies) and make your own decision don't be scaremongered.

Honestly if these people commenting knew how badly being in this position can effect a person's mental health they would not be posting these comments even if it is their true opinion.

No because I’m not a cunt and it’s none of my business.

PS it's never affected my ability to get a job OP. It might in some roles, but I've had jobs with vulnerable people that required a DRB and it's never been an issue. Nobody has ever asked except for the odd place who didn't care about it. I was working at a bank when I went bankrupt.

It MAY affect some jobs but many won't even ask. IMO if you're at a stage of it being so bad you're considering bankruptcy, I wouldn't necessarily let worry about future jobs stop you as it's completely unknown. And you'll probably gain so much more in freedom and peace of mind despite how stressful it is to go through the process.

Make sure you open a few regular bank accounts at another bank before you pull the trigger as for months or years after you'll only be able to open cash accounts and many banks won't accept you for that. I opened up a few current accounts with a brand new bank before the bankruptcy went through so I had a normal account to use while my others were all frozen.

Mine was a DRO if that makes any difference but I'm sure a lot applies to a 'proper bankruptcy' too. Hope you find a way through this. I'm all for personal responsibility (lord knows I've had to have a lot to have kept servicing the debt and never defaulting, being unable to access any credit at all for years following the event and being forced to budget hardcore knowing there's no safety net, and the immense drain being in increasing debt had on my life and mental health while also very poorly and grieving) but there's also something to be said for the other side, that banks do prey on vulnerable people who they know full well can't repay the debt (or they wouldn't do it, if they weren't getting interest from you). Payday loans are targeted at desperate people with little other option. I had my credit card limit increased every six months without my permission, was offered increasing amounts of loans despite being on £11k per year my CC limit was a combined £10k. Yes we all have to take personal responsibility and despite the circumstances leading to my debt listed above (dead parent, severe ill health, no safety net or benefits, it was get into debt or be on the streets) I know it was nobody's fault but my own in a way. Well, it doesn't feel looking back it was all my fault given I couldn't magic up money elsewhere, was denied benefits, did everything I could to get better, couldn't not bury my mum, and it takes time to train and get a better education and better paid job. I'm just saying even though there are a lot of moving parts and it's a complex issue with some fault on several sides you shouldn't beat yourself up. Lots of people fall on hard times and you can't get blood from a stone. Banks know full well lending money is a gamble, sometimes they profit and sometimes they don't. If there weren't cases where people took debt then couldn't service it due to changes in circumstances and they couldn't absorb that cost they wouldn't lend. They come out on top no matter what x

What would be the point in paying every penny back

People do have to make payments if they are bankrupt, based on what they can afford after they have paid their normal household bills, paid for food and transport etc, although it is rarely 'every penny' but it could be if they got a better paid job or inheritence during the period of their income payments order.

Going bankrupt (or making another arrangement like an IVA or DRO) would stop also interest and charges being added to the debt, so people might pay off the basic amount they owe, but not loads of added extras, which is often the problem for people in debt.

I wouldn't, no.

When the business which owed our new business 10k went bankrupt it was at a time when my ddad was dying.

They were back up and running under a different name not long after. Meanwhile, the it was all we could do to manage the fallout at the worst time in my life.

The lying, stonewalling and deception that went on before they declared bankruptcy was really below the belt. Fresh behind the ears, and coping with my Dad failing health it took me longer to realise what was happening than it should have done.

Nervous breakdowns aren't just the preserve of those who default on their payments.

I know Barbara that’s my point. You’re given an amount to pay back and a payment plan. Why would you pay any more?

I didn't say that all people going bankrupt were like that, I just told about an experience my family had, sorry if I gave that impression. I said everyone was different.

I also had who burned me by walking away from all her debts, including money she owed me, so maybe that adds to my reasons for being wary.

But I'm not judging the OP's circumstances at all.

Nervous breakdowns aren't just the preserve of those who default on their payments.

this

Some posters forget that the money is not coming out of thin air, but that someone will have a hole in their own finance.

Restbit ignorance it’s any consolation company liquidations can take years to sort and liquidators are well up on Phoenix companies. They’re also absolute animals in the main and it’s very likely your debtors had their own nervous breakdowns delivered, just many months or years later

Yes for both. I would judge

I would like to think I wouldn't judge and it certainly depends on the individual situation.
for job interviews: as many posters have said, some jobs require a credit check and a clean record.

Final PS, it was an incredibly difficult process to get a DRO. The criteria was incredibly strict. I had to provide months of statements and wage slips to prove I had less than £50 per month left each month. My car couldn't be worse more than £1000 and I wasn't allowed to have a mortgage at the time (I didn't). I had many indepth interviews justifying how much I spent on shampoo per month for example. I had to scrape up a fee I could hardly afford. And if I'd ever serviced one debt min repayment over another I was barred from it (I am so so lucky I never did that, if one month in the past you ever defaulted on the electricity to pay your phone you cannot get a DRO). Honestly the day it came through was like the first day of the rest of my life. Being bankrupt was one of the best things I could have done given that I didn't have a time machine. Six years on I still can't rent a flat without a guarantor, but my earnings are mine, I've never got into a penny of debt since and I can budget and manage money very well including holding a credit card and overdraft I never use.

I really feel passionately there ought to be lessons on money management and specifically the debt spiral/interest at school, as I didn't have a clue until it started to rack up and I had nobody to teach me, by the time I realised it was too late. I definitely feel that the normalising of the student overdraft had a big impact, first year £500 interest free last year £1500 interest free. Then you graduate and start work and it's not free anymore and being in hundreds of pounds of debt is all you've ever known since being an adult. So you take a loan to clear it and then get offered credit cards left right and centre. It's okay when young people have parents to warn and teach them but not all of us do so I feel proper money and debt lessons at school would go a long way to helping young people avoid falling into the pit in the first place.

My bankruptcy was forced by one creditor who wouldn't accept a payment plan.

Out of 10 creditors, one (to whom we owed the least money) refused to set up a payment plan, causing everyone else to lose out by default.

I'd have happily worked my arse off to settle those debts.

I wasn't given the choice. It's a minefield op but happy to offer some useful (free) contacts and details to perhaps help guide you in your decision making process.

It also depends what the debt is made up of. Interest and late payment charges to personal loan companies - meh. The gouging bastards deserve all they get. Money owed to a small company for goods and services - you should pay back what you can.
I got into debt because people I worked for either paid me late or not at all. It was personal loans or get evicted. Don't forget that the economic crash was caused by banks not just lending money to people who were never going to be able to afford the repayments, but by them speculating on currencies and buying and selling bad debts.

It really would depend why. I know people who've gone bankrupt through no fault of their own and others who've done it knowing full well what they're doing (and stashing assets left right and centre and setting up their lives in readiness having scammed many many others in the process).

Work I would judge yes because it says something about their judgement and self control.

You're entitled to your views Maudlin, absolutely. And it's no skin off my nose what you think about people who've had bankruptcy. But "Work I would judge yes because it says something about their judgement and self control."

Have you read any of the replies on here about how people ended up bankrupt? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on my own situation and how that was down to my self control and judgment. No bashing, honestly.

A very close friend of mine left her abusive husband in their flat (she had to)

He stopped paying the service charges and ground rent. She got a CCJ (not as bad as bankruptcy but fairly similar outcomes) which she didn’t even know about as there is no step to ensure you are present in court when it’s granted.

What would you judge her on?