To give DP an ear bashing over his tax return (or lack of...)

[Snowfire]

It’s that time of year again where the self employed are getting their tax returns in order before the end of month deadline. Not DP though, he still hasn’t sent his in for last year! He has had a couple of fines come through which he has paid but otherwise his head is firmly wedged in the sand over it all.
His work is always busier at this time of year so he is working a lot of hours at the moment but I’m getting really stressed about this, as he just doesn’t see it as a priority.
Would IBU to tell him to book a week off even though he’s busy so that he can get on top of it all? I have offered to help but he just makes excuses.

I've been in a similar situation, and it can easily slide out of control by avoidance. It won't go away, and HMRC aren't remotely sympathetic.

Does it bother him? If he's spent a year worrying, even if he's pushing it deep down, he'll make himself ill.

How about he pays someone to do his books for him?

Look at the fonancial penalties that have to be paid if the form is not submitted.

Absolute madness!!!!

I would be nagging like a mad woman

If this time of year is busy for him, he needs to do it earlier in the year as it can be done any time from 6 April onwards.

And it shouldn't take much time at all (an hour or two if that) if he's kept records of income and expenses.

Or does he prefer to throw money away in fines? Might it be cheaper for him to pay an accountant to do it for him?

Do you have time to help him? It's annoying if he won't do it himself, but it's just such a waste of money to be fined. He could pay you for 'book keeping and administration' and it would be tax efficient if you earn under the threshold yourself.

Sounds to me like he knows he's going to have to pay them some money do is avoiding it totally.

Is it something you'd be able to do with him in the evenings til you both get on top of it? Dig everything out and force him to face up to it?

I do DH's books month by month because it's just easier than leaving it to build up, but I know if I didn't he'd be in the same position.

Well either he does it or he pays someone else to. And actions speak louder than words - he isn't doing it. So he'll have to pay up.

Is the problem that his record keeping is so crap that no one else can do it either? And has he set the money aside to pay the tax or not?

I dread it... But then bit bullet and got accountant to do it for me...

Costs a few hundred so less than fines.

Does you dh not pay his tax then?
I'd be very very anxious if I was you.. Is he saving the money to pay tax?

Hmrc will want there money... As is right, the rest of us our paying our taxes your dp can't just opt out...

Could you make appointment with a local accountant and find out what they need to do accounts, how much it costs and what outcome of not paying tax or doing returns might be. Then present it to your dp

Personally I couldn't be with someone who was that shit with money. These fines will impact both of you (assuming you live together) - personally I think he's just being extremely selfish.

Tax returns are all part of being self-employed. If he's not organised or savvy enough to do them himself, then he needs to pay someone to do it for him. He can't just bury his head in the sand and expect HMRC to forget about it.

Why the bloody hell hasn't he done last years return?

Would it be worth pointing out that any accountancy fees would be tax deductible??

The system relies on people completing their returns on time. They don’t have to wait until the last minute and do it in January, they can do it the day after their accounting period finishes. I have very little sympathy about people complaining. HMRC don’t derive any joy from imposing fines - the admin involves means that all parties would be better off just submitting the bloody things on time!

I file a tax return every year and I'm afraid I am incredibly hard-hearted when it comes to people moaning about it. Just do it - people who are PAYE don't have the benefit of deferring paying their tax for almost a year after they earned the money.

Every year my FB feed fills up with people saying "Can't log into the government gateway" or panicking about leaving it to the last minute, or being relieved they've got it in on time and expecting a biscuit for complying with their basic citizen duty. Argh.

Anyway. what should the OP do? If they don't have shared funds, then just leave him to it. Let him stick his head in the sand and hope it goes away.

if they do have shared funds, then have a serious, calm conversation about how much money he is wasting, and what that represents as something concrete - a holiday, or hours of your time. It's not fair for him to make you responsible for his financial laziness.

I couldn't live with a partner like that. I couldn't deal with cringing every time the post came through, waiting for HMRC to escalate it, never being sure exactly how much money we'd have because they might pop up demanding £Xk at any time.
DH has been self employed since 1993. We were late with a return in 1995 but I phoned them to explain we'd had a newborn in intensive care - they were fine.
We've tinkered with our year end so that we are always nearly two years ahead. In fact, he will be seeing the accountant later today and expects to get a computation for the tax payable up to July 2019, as the info for his 2017/18 return was given to the accountant before Xmas even though it won't be included in his tax return until April and payments on that will be due Jan and July 2019. We tend to make those payments about six weeks early as well (so paid our 31 Jan 2018 early in December).
I have a simple self employed income too, and tend to submit my return round about May.

Control freaks, us?...never.

Have you seen the bank balances? Does he have the money to pay if tax is owing? That would be my major worry if I were you.

But to echo the above, assuming it's a small and straightforward business (otherwise you'd have someone doing the accounts anyway), then it would be cheaper to get someone in each quarter to keep on top of things than to pay the fines.

Just had a quick google - the penalty for being a year late is £1600, plus up to 100% penalty of the tax due as well for late payment. Get yourself to an account asap.

I should also say that as part of our control freakiness, we are also in a position to see that our tax payments due in Jan and July 2020 are likely to be a lot higher. Bugger. Forewarned is forearmed I s'pose.

Omg this would be a non-negotiable for me. He is putting his family at risk by ignoring and not paying. If he’s struggling to do the admin then get an accountant to do it.

If he doesn’t have the money to pay the tax bill then that’s really bad but will still need to be dealt with so ignoring it is just not an option.

At this late stage I wouldn’t turn down work to do it. He’s going to need that money to pay the taxes and fines I would put my energy into getting it sorted. It’s going to be difficult to get someone to do it before the 31st filing deadline - anyone good is likely to be at full capacity. I would still look for someone though even if they can only help from February and I would start gathering the paperwork together.

How bad is it? Has he not got invoices? Are receipts just chucked in carrier bags? Find what you can and start sorting it out.

Put a system in place for the future: as many expenses as possible completed online and the sales invoice into an email folder. Where expenses are paid in person use a bank account that is solely for the business so there’s a statement at least. If he finds filing a hassle give him a box to put stuff in and then get someone else to sort and file - pay for help if necessary.

What sort of business is it? Is he a sole trader or running a limited company? Does he work from home or run an office/workshop/shop or similar?

I have recently taken on a new client, who had not filed last years return and been issued with £1200 penalty notice. They came to me in a panic needing help to sort it all out. The tax office will sometimes cancel the penalty, depending on the circumstances but that usually only includes death or serious health issues.

So your DP should have a £1200 penalty on the way for not filing 2016, plus will incur the same again if he does not file the 2017 return.

That money would be better spent on giving his accountant all his paperwork and letting them sort it out!

We only started living together last year and our finances are mostly separate apart from day to day expenses and household bills.
I’ve just spent a couple of hours in the study sorting through his files. I found a letter from a couple of years ago which showed fines for late payments so this isn’t a new thing. I phoned him up and told him what I had found and he knows he’s going to have to get on with it.
I work full time and study so I am pretty short on time but I have sat and collated a years worth of receipts this afternoon on my day off.

I don’t understand why he hasn’t done this before, I have been having the odd nag at him all year but he just doesn’t seem to get it. Anyway, I’m going to tell him I’m doing it from now on and I won’t be helping him with his fines.

We only started living together last year and our finances are mostly separate apart from day to day expenses and household bills.

Not your circus. Not your monkeys.

You can choose to hassle him about the taxes and firmly put yourself in the wifework/family brain/nag place that will persist for ever OR you can tell him he's a grown up and it's none of your business but you will make sure it doesn't affect you.

And if you marry him and mingle your finances, you may escape the horrible place women put themselves into where they have to 'nag' because fuck all would happen otherwise. You choice is 'nag' or 'doormat' if you start to manage him like a child.

Why doesn't he just get an accountant to do his tax return. Wouldn't that be simpler and most likely cheaper. Why make life difficult. It isn't necessary.

Oh no I don't understand people who do this

The maximum late filing penalty for each year is £1,200 and then there are additional penalties for late payment. What a waste of money :(

You can choose to hassle him about the taxes and firmly put yourself in the wifework/family brain/nag place that will persist for ever OR you can tell him he's a grown up and it's none of your business but you will make sure it doesn't affect you.

Agree with this. He's showing you what he's like. Pay attention !!

It's not that difficult to keep the info which an accountant would require to prepare business accounts and a tax return. Ideally, kept neat and tidy. Failing that, a cardboard box with all the info, in which case the accountant would charge more for sifting through it, but your DP might be OK paying that

While I agree about not being complicit with learned helplessness that men are so fond off, I do find it quite sad when people on mn say 'don't help him'...

We all have different skill sets, we all bring different things to a relationship and being in a relationship is being in a team... You work together for the good of the team.

So OP if you arw better at administration stuff like filing accounts, life administration then get on and do it for him... The flip of this is he does stuff that you don't like doing... For me I am really good at domestic stuff.. Love cooking, planning meals and I love laundry and I am good at that kind of stuff, I am hopeless at bills and money... Luckily dp is good at money so he does that. No I don't feel it is anti feminist of him or me, no I don't feel I do wife work, we play to our strengths for the good of our little team...

Mine hasn't either, and his is about getting money back, so even more galling. He;;s forgotten the password,then couldn't verify himself, then gave up.

I am slightly peeved (read furious) about this.

Well it's several months later and he still hasn't done it. I sat and sorted out his receipts and other expenses and put it all on a spreadsheet to help but he hasn't done anything with it. I asked him again this evening if he had contacted an accountant and I was accused of nagging and he's sulking. I just don't know what else I can do. I love him dearly and he is so wonderful in other ways but this is driving me crazy!
I feel like I can't plan ahead, book a holiday or any other expenditure as I can just see the money disappearing on fines.